Going With The 60min Flow!!!
- Thread starter Saint
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Re: Questions from juniors on"Going with 60minute flow"
Yes Dear VPS,let me try ....
When the mkt rises or falls with a very steep gradient,we trail our stop and reverse point to the high/low of revious 2 bars.So if the mkt is going up and the gradient of ascent becomes very steep,or in other words mkt gives us a few large range and strong up bars,we trail our stop and reverse point to the lower low of previous 2 bars.This is mainly to capture exhaustion gap and to have large profits booked in time and having a short entry at an opportune high level. You will find Aban trades Saint has closed mostly on 2 bars rule.
To be used only in case of large near vertical up or down moves,in all normal moves,stick to PH/PL only.
Best Wishes,Trade Well !!!
Smart_trade
Yes Dear VPS,let me try ....
When the mkt rises or falls with a very steep gradient,we trail our stop and reverse point to the high/low of revious 2 bars.So if the mkt is going up and the gradient of ascent becomes very steep,or in other words mkt gives us a few large range and strong up bars,we trail our stop and reverse point to the lower low of previous 2 bars.This is mainly to capture exhaustion gap and to have large profits booked in time and having a short entry at an opportune high level. You will find Aban trades Saint has closed mostly on 2 bars rule.
To be used only in case of large near vertical up or down moves,in all normal moves,stick to PH/PL only.
Best Wishes,Trade Well !!!
Smart_trade
V
i have compiled all the rules of this thread in a pdf format & uploaded it at the following link.everyday doubts are being raised as to why u need to see the 30 min chart too..then saint posts a 2 charts calling them pure flow & 30 min tweak flow..stiill unable to understand why these 2 names have been given..searched for saints previous posts in this thread where he has clearly stated why u need to look at the 30 min chart also.i think people like satya who has been following this thread right from the beginning understands the whole concept.seeing saints charts raised fresh doubts in my mind,but going thru the old posts all these doubts got vanished.i think sum people here have joined in the middle of the thread & have started trading without reading so much in between where saint has applied those tweaks..the 2 bar rule & WRB's were always there.i have managed to compile all these things , thnks to saint for his rules & tweaks & a person who is uploading flowcharts(i think nifty chance) & sanjay for his add-on flowchart..this will help any newcomers in reading the rules & also old timers to re-read the rules again if any doubts crop up , without the need for searching in this thread , the size of which is huge...
pls remove the spaces when u type the link.
link : http://www.4 s h a r e d.c o m/file/63817131/b7710b69/60_MIN_FLOW_TRADE.html
pls remove the spaces when u type the link.
link : http://www.4 s h a r e d.c o m/file/63817131/b7710b69/60_MIN_FLOW_TRADE.html
Re: Questions from juniors on"Going with 60minute flow"
Yeseterday's NF. I was paper trading 5 min chart. Was confused reg. entry. By the time I could decided it was 10 am. Icould get to short only at 4190. SL 4205
When the PL came at 11.10 or so and seeing the next 2 bars I went long at 4178.
Exited at 4280
EOD, made 12+100=112 pts. All on paper. Is this just my luck? I feel so. Don't know if I was rightly following the system
Where did I go wrong and deviate from the system. Pl guide me.
vps
Yeseterday's NF. I was paper trading 5 min chart. Was confused reg. entry. By the time I could decided it was 10 am. Icould get to short only at 4190. SL 4205
When the PL came at 11.10 or so and seeing the next 2 bars I went long at 4178.
Exited at 4280
EOD, made 12+100=112 pts. All on paper. Is this just my luck? I feel so. Don't know if I was rightly following the system
Where did I go wrong and deviate from the system. Pl guide me.
vps
Thanks Vikram!!! Tanks a lot, will be helpful for all!!!
Vikram, frankly the exact situation when to consider a 30 min pivot is still not very clear to me!!! I understand it but not clear enough to base my trades on it!!!
In the rules summed up by you i get the impression to have a parallel 30 min. chart running and reverse our position when a pivot breaks in 30 min.
You have quoted Saint :
When following the 60min Flow,all your entry,exit,stops whatever,all are based on the 60min charts.But keep an eye on the 30min charts for better clarity as to the happenings within the 60min candle.No pivots should break on the 30 as the 60 roars upwards.A break in 30 is an indication of things to come.it's enough to revert our positions.Why then can't we call it the 30min Flow?You could if you want.But we are in general trying to be on the right side of the 60 using the 30 as an aid.
My only question is , When do we take the aid of 30 min. chart!!! This is almost clear to me not crystal clear!!! I felt while analysing the past data that the right side colours my decision about the use of 30 min. chart, but when I am trying to judge the switch to 30 min. chart in real time I seem to be making errors!!!
So any further assistance in this regard is most welcome!!!
If this is not the correct thread to post, i dont mind deleting it here and reposting it on the Questions about 60 min. flow!!!! thread.
Regards
R K Karnani
Vikram, frankly the exact situation when to consider a 30 min pivot is still not very clear to me!!! I understand it but not clear enough to base my trades on it!!!
In the rules summed up by you i get the impression to have a parallel 30 min. chart running and reverse our position when a pivot breaks in 30 min.
You have quoted Saint :
When following the 60min Flow,all your entry,exit,stops whatever,all are based on the 60min charts.But keep an eye on the 30min charts for better clarity as to the happenings within the 60min candle.No pivots should break on the 30 as the 60 roars upwards.A break in 30 is an indication of things to come.it's enough to revert our positions.Why then can't we call it the 30min Flow?You could if you want.But we are in general trying to be on the right side of the 60 using the 30 as an aid.
My only question is , When do we take the aid of 30 min. chart!!! This is almost clear to me not crystal clear!!! I felt while analysing the past data that the right side colours my decision about the use of 30 min. chart, but when I am trying to judge the switch to 30 min. chart in real time I seem to be making errors!!!
So any further assistance in this regard is most welcome!!!
If this is not the correct thread to post, i dont mind deleting it here and reposting it on the Questions about 60 min. flow!!!! thread.
Regards
R K Karnani
Re: Questions from juniors on"Going with 60minute flow"
weekend quiz on 60 mins flow
what was the profit made on 1lot of nf and on 1 mini in the long trade?
what was the initial risk in the short trade in the chart?
what was the capital needed to trade the short for nf and mini if u take only 1% risk per trade?
Mention the figure of stop getting reduced as the trade progressed till it was reversed.
DONT POST YOUR ANSWERS IN THIS THREAD
weekend quiz on 60 mins flow
what was the profit made on 1lot of nf and on 1 mini in the long trade?
what was the initial risk in the short trade in the chart?
what was the capital needed to trade the short for nf and mini if u take only 1% risk per trade?
Mention the figure of stop getting reduced as the trade progressed till it was reversed.
DONT POST YOUR ANSWERS IN THIS THREAD
Last edited:
V
mr karnani,i still have to study more into this 30min/60 min thing.
from wht i understand if u have a break of the 30 min pivot u can luk into lower time frame charts like 15mins,5 mins etc...even 1 min.
im sure ull find that they all will be in a downtrend most of the time..pls dont forget that it is the 1 min chart tht makes the 5 mins,the 5 mins make the 10 mins & so on.so if u luk at the 30 mins & see a pivot crack u know wht to expect in a 60 mins.it just tht...the rules are laid down for 60 mins..this i feel is an imp add-on..trade it if u r comfy ,, dont if u dont want to...its upto u.
but let me tell u if u trade on 30 mins pivots it wud become a 30 min flow...ull have more trades & at the end of the month u may earn same as tht in a 60 min flow thread..but 30 min trading is more stressful than the 60 min.
wht i feel is tht if u r running in gud profits & the stop loss is far off & u dont want to leave profits on the table,it wud be more prudent to get into 30 min pivot & then u know wht to expect..but then u can also follow your 2 bar rule,or the trendline crack rule where u exit 50% of ur position & the next 50% at the pivot crack..
many a times u get a V- move up & then a V- move down..wudnt it be wise to luk at the 30 min pivots & marking them on the chart
i feel a system has been presented in a very basic form.all rules are laid down..u apply tweaks which is comfy to u.
from wht i understand if u have a break of the 30 min pivot u can luk into lower time frame charts like 15mins,5 mins etc...even 1 min.
im sure ull find that they all will be in a downtrend most of the time..pls dont forget that it is the 1 min chart tht makes the 5 mins,the 5 mins make the 10 mins & so on.so if u luk at the 30 mins & see a pivot crack u know wht to expect in a 60 mins.it just tht...the rules are laid down for 60 mins..this i feel is an imp add-on..trade it if u r comfy ,, dont if u dont want to...its upto u.
but let me tell u if u trade on 30 mins pivots it wud become a 30 min flow...ull have more trades & at the end of the month u may earn same as tht in a 60 min flow thread..but 30 min trading is more stressful than the 60 min.
wht i feel is tht if u r running in gud profits & the stop loss is far off & u dont want to leave profits on the table,it wud be more prudent to get into 30 min pivot & then u know wht to expect..but then u can also follow your 2 bar rule,or the trendline crack rule where u exit 50% of ur position & the next 50% at the pivot crack..
many a times u get a V- move up & then a V- move down..wudnt it be wise to luk at the 30 min pivots & marking them on the chart
i feel a system has been presented in a very basic form.all rules are laid down..u apply tweaks which is comfy to u.
(Though this post is in response to VVVV 's post it is not addressed to him alone!!!)
Thanks a lot for a detailed explanation!!! Please do not treat this post as if I want to argue....I wish to make the system as less dependent on my personal views as possible!!!
Vikram, I know that i will get an earlier signal in 30 minutes. My effort is to remove the "I" from my decisions!!! And also to keep the system simple!!! Now the first question comes :
How much profit is good profit!!!
How far a SL is "far off"!!!
In both the situations I have to decide which I wish to dispense with. So the easiest way out of avoiding the use of "I" here is to be with the flow!!!
But the rules suggested by Saint recommend that we use a 30 min. chart for reversal if this or this is the situation!!
Vikram I am still not been able to fully comprehend the exact "B]this or this [/B]" situation recommended by Saint!!! As i mentioned in my earlier post, the matter is not vague but also not crystal clear!!! Saint has done his best to explain it N number of times, seems I am unable to shed my preconceived notions so not entering my thick head!!! Seems I have some "unlearning" to do!!!!
So what do I do, as mentioned by you , I decide on the tweaks and trade them!!! But still my inclination is to understand the "rules" as set by Saint and the reason for this being, very frankly, the rules derived by Saint, who has a trading experience of the System of around more than a couple of years, and mine is just around 2 months!!! Why would I not wish to use something much better than mine!!!
I am happy that I earned in last 2 months of trades but there always remained an iota of doubt about the trades being done though I had back tested for more than 15 months with not a single derivative month giving loss. To be candid the profits analysed or even in real trades profits earned were no where near what Saint had achieved, but would hasten to add : "Profits were handsome by any standards, to say the least."
Question is then why do I need to seek guidance for the adds or this 30 min. Pivot etc. etc. Every system has its drawdowns, this shall also have its , may be small may be big, time shall tell!!! But to counter the drawdowns one must extract the 'full value' of the system. After all when a system is traded one looks at the no. of winners , loosers, size if wins, size of losses etc. If I win big loose small so far so good!! But if I win small and loose small or win big and loose big the R/R ratio is tossed out of proportion in the long run!!! And I am convinced that my tweaks though working fine have not been able to achieve what was desired!!!! Testing time would come when the market turns sideways!!!! I may still earn but net net but with adverse R/R ratio!!!
The system as you said has been given to us as "Ready to use"!!! And at some period of time I too had advocated the tweaks as per ones own comfort level, I still advocate to accomodate the system per one own mental make up BUT I would like to add : First fully understand the system in its original form and then do the needful!!! I fully realise that some aspects of the system are still only vaguely understood by me!!!! And need the help of you all to understand the same!!!
Well went on writing in a flow did not realise it has become a loooong post and may loose its relevance as many would just skip it!!!
No offence was meant or intended!!!! If any I apologise!!!
All the best!!!
R K Karnani
Thanks a lot for a detailed explanation!!! Please do not treat this post as if I want to argue....I wish to make the system as less dependent on my personal views as possible!!!
Vikram, I know that i will get an earlier signal in 30 minutes. My effort is to remove the "I" from my decisions!!! And also to keep the system simple!!! Now the first question comes :
How much profit is good profit!!!
How far a SL is "far off"!!!
In both the situations I have to decide which I wish to dispense with. So the easiest way out of avoiding the use of "I" here is to be with the flow!!!
But the rules suggested by Saint recommend that we use a 30 min. chart for reversal if this or this is the situation!!
Vikram I am still not been able to fully comprehend the exact "B]this or this [/B]" situation recommended by Saint!!! As i mentioned in my earlier post, the matter is not vague but also not crystal clear!!! Saint has done his best to explain it N number of times, seems I am unable to shed my preconceived notions so not entering my thick head!!! Seems I have some "unlearning" to do!!!!
So what do I do, as mentioned by you , I decide on the tweaks and trade them!!! But still my inclination is to understand the "rules" as set by Saint and the reason for this being, very frankly, the rules derived by Saint, who has a trading experience of the System of around more than a couple of years, and mine is just around 2 months!!! Why would I not wish to use something much better than mine!!!
I am happy that I earned in last 2 months of trades but there always remained an iota of doubt about the trades being done though I had back tested for more than 15 months with not a single derivative month giving loss. To be candid the profits analysed or even in real trades profits earned were no where near what Saint had achieved, but would hasten to add : "Profits were handsome by any standards, to say the least."
Question is then why do I need to seek guidance for the adds or this 30 min. Pivot etc. etc. Every system has its drawdowns, this shall also have its , may be small may be big, time shall tell!!! But to counter the drawdowns one must extract the 'full value' of the system. After all when a system is traded one looks at the no. of winners , loosers, size if wins, size of losses etc. If I win big loose small so far so good!! But if I win small and loose small or win big and loose big the R/R ratio is tossed out of proportion in the long run!!! And I am convinced that my tweaks though working fine have not been able to achieve what was desired!!!! Testing time would come when the market turns sideways!!!! I may still earn but net net but with adverse R/R ratio!!!
The system as you said has been given to us as "Ready to use"!!! And at some period of time I too had advocated the tweaks as per ones own comfort level, I still advocate to accomodate the system per one own mental make up BUT I would like to add : First fully understand the system in its original form and then do the needful!!! I fully realise that some aspects of the system are still only vaguely understood by me!!!! And need the help of you all to understand the same!!!
Well went on writing in a flow did not realise it has become a loooong post and may loose its relevance as many would just skip it!!!
No offence was meant or intended!!!! If any I apologise!!!
All the best!!!
R K Karnani
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