Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[kkseal]

Post # 6546 page 655 latest rules for this method

Thanks. Had a look I'm pretty close (Most reassuring is the use of a smaller -5min- tf).

Regards

 

[pakatil]

Thanks. Had a look I'm pretty close (Most reassuring is the use of a smaller -5min- tf).

Regards

I think all the Bars in 60 Min flow are to be considered equally, not considering its duration. Well, 1st Bar is 5 Min & Last Bar is 30 Min. During Sun Outage, 12.00 - 30 Min, 13.00 - 50 Min & Last Bar - 15 Min.

My perception. I may be wrong.

Cheers

 

[psj]

Yes,my friend,got the source of the problem.......but yesterday was what is under the EXCEPTION part.......6 sideways bars before falling through.Sideways means range....not 6 bars of same highs and lows,but that price doesn't seem to be making a go ahead in either direction

This "new" system is the same thing that we have been doing all this while........except how we tackle Visual Gaps.

Saint

Excellant Saint. You are simply Great!

After you released the consolidated/revised(little bit) Golden rules last week, I had gone thro' word by word many time to understand correctly.

Because, WORDS can be communicated, not the MEANING.

"3.In an uptrend,everytime we make new highs,we bring our stops to the low of the recent pivot low.""""

For this part, I did simple charts like 1, 1a, 1b etc .. posted for your confirmation.

After you confirmed that post, I am very clear now about this point.


""EXCEPTION:Sometimes,in an uptrend,price makes a higher pivot low and does not go to new highs,and instead goes sideways for a period of time,or pulls back up and forms a clear cut lower high,but it must be visually obvious,.........and then falls through.Stops are therefore still at recent pivot lows although newer highs are not made...........But in both instances,the rule and the exception,those points are very visually obvious."""

This was another point, I wanted to get confirmation. But, I could not make any example chart..

But, now it came with live example. (I came to know only after you posted this now. That means I was also in that list.... missed that pivot.. in fact I am happy that we got the chance to see this case in live...)

Saint, if you don't mind, can you please confirm whether my understand is correct as stated below.

As per the chart above, the first three bars make the Low at bar 2. But, the high of Bar 1 is not taken out by bar 3, so the Pivot Low is not confirmed at bar 3. Then Bar 4, 5 and 6 didn't cross the high of bar 1 and low of bar 2 either. So, at the end of bar 6, the Bar 2 low is considered as Pivot low.
Is this correct? If so, is the number of Bars 6 to be considered always for this exception case?

One more question that could avoid few future questions on this.
The bar 1 high was 3356.50. Bar 3 high was 3351.00.
If the Bar 3 high was 3357, can we confirm Pivot Low at the end of Bar 3 itself.

Thanks,
PSJ

 

[pakatil]

Dear PSJ,

I am able to see that, Bars 4,5,6 looks like Pivot Low.

If not the Bar3(Opening Bar) Low - 20, atleast Bar5 Low - 15 should have been the SAR for Longs.

Cheers

 

[SHRIKRISHNA PUROHIT]

Saint,

My congratulations to you for starting this wonderful thread.

I have been keenly watching this thread. I am a great fan of Bill Williams. We all know that this system is a variation of Bill Williams Alligator system, and a good variation too.

However I feel that there are some ambiguities, as I find them. Probably you all are very much familiar with this system and hence may be knowing answers to all these. At the risk of being repetitive, I am stiil raising the following queries. I hope you will be patient with these queries, even though you might have replied to them in the past.

1) Definition of a Pivot- Let us say there are 3 bars and no.2 is a potential pivot bar. Then are there any conditions for bar no.1 and bar no.3, regarding their range in relation to bar no.2 ? If bar no.3 is an inside bar of bar no.2, will it still be a valid pivot?

2) Visual gap- I assume that this visual gap of next day is from closing level of previous day, and that, it has got nothing to do with high and low of the previous day, because sometimes gap is defined as a gap only if it is beyond the range of previous day. ( i.e. open above previous days high or open below previous days low)

3) WRB- In daily discussions among participants, I am finding good debates on pivot point entries and reversals. However I have found very few references on WRB entries, their stop losses or reversals. I am curious to know, whether WRB entries are regular feature of this system? If we add on a short position on WRB basis, then I presume that its stop loss is the high of the same WRB. If this stop loss is hit, are we supposed to close all our shorts and go long(SAR). Is there any definition of the WRB? What should be the range of the bar to qualify as WRB?

I am afraid that I might have raised some points which are aleady well debated and well known to many of you. But still one more clarification on these may go a long way in generating confidence.

Saint, I am sure that sometimes you may be getting frustrated in answering all these repetitive queries. However great work started by you will have more and more followers. You will have to be a little patient.

Once again thanks for starting something which has generated this much widespread interest

 

[columbus]

Saint,

My congratulations to you for starting this wonderful thread.

I have been keenly watching this thread. I am a great fan of Bill Williams. We all know that this system is a variation of Bill Williams Alligator system, and a good variation too.

However I feel that there are some ambiguities, as I find them. Probably you all are very much familiar with this system and hence may be knowing answers to all these. At the risk of being repetitive, I am stiil raising the following queries. I hope you will be patient with these queries, even though you might have replied to them in the past.

1) Definition of a Pivot- Let us say there are 3 bars and no.2 is a potential pivot bar. Then are there any conditions for bar no.1 and bar no.3, regarding their range in relation to bar no.2 ? If bar no.3 is an inside bar of bar no.2, will it still be a valid pivot?

2) Visual gap- I assume that this visual gap of next day is from closing level of previous day, and that, it has got nothing to do with high and low of the previous day, because sometimes gap is defined as a gap only if it is beyond the range of previous day. ( i.e. open above previous days high or open below previous days low)

3) WRB- In daily discussions among participants, I am finding good debates on pivot point entries and reversals. However I have found very few references on WRB entries, their stop losses or reversals. I am curious to know, whether WRB entries are regular feature of this system? If we add on a short position on WRB basis, then I presume that its stop loss is the high of the same WRB. If this stop loss is hit, are we supposed to close all our shorts and go long(SAR). Is there any definition of the WRB? What should be the range of the bar to qualify as WRB?

I am afraid that I might have raised some points which are aleady well debated and well known to many of you. But still one more clarification on these may go a long way in generating confidence.

Saint, I am sure that sometimes you may be getting frustrated in answering all these repetitive queries. However great work started by you will have more and more followers. You will have to be a little patient.

Once again thanks for starting something which has generated this much widespread interest

....how to make ALLIGATOR work for you ?..........

 

[man4urheart]

Saint

This sounds convincing to me now! This was the rule which I learned just now!

That's why I didn't saw it on Friday!

 

[littlekashyap]

Thankyou sooo much

 

[Saint]

Saint,
Extremely relieved after reading your posts....how lucky we are. Unfortunately, my PC crashed day before...so could not post anything, nor backtest the new method.

However, even before re-backtesting.....I have a very basic doubt. Till now, I have been seeing and trading the 'earstwhile aggr' pivots (sorry for mentioning that name again, even when u had said that we wont be talking abt it henceforth).

Rakesh,there is no new method.....same old method.....The pivots you see are the same pivots that we are trading......trading all pivots and adding a few rules on visual gaps,that's all.

My problem is....I find them tradeable, and since that method has been ingrained so deeply in me..that I find it very difficult and uneasy to ignore them. They keep popping out and haunting me all the time.

So...where do those aggressive traders stand in the current method? Do we shun the Aggressive strategy(and their pivots) and get really Pure...or proceed as if nothing new has happened (visual gap rules being the exception).

And indeed they are tradeable and we are trading them all.......all same + gap rules.

Even a very brief answer will remove a lot of my doubts. Pl also tell me how are you treating the issue since you too were folowing the aggressive method.

Thanks a lot,

Rakesh
ps: Extremely sorry for bringing up the topic (Pure Vs Aggressive) again. An answer now will surely avoid a lot of confusions in the days to come.

Nothing different,Rakesh.....all same stuff + gap rules.......Actually,what was once termed as Aggressive is nothing but Modifying the Pure to the next level......and this is fine tuning even further.......only difference: Did away with unnecessary names and variations.....Same stuff + gap rules...

Saint

 

[Saint]

Saint, if you don't mind, can you please confirm whether my understand is correct as stated below.

As per the chart above, the first three bars make the Low at bar 2. But, the high of Bar 1 is not taken out by bar 3, so the Pivot Low is not confirmed at bar 3.

Exactly,PSJ........We got what looks like a probable pivot but we have no confirmation.Bar 3 did not go to new highs,so no confirmation....If it did,we would have just raised our stops and waited.

Then Bar 4, 5 and 6 didn't cross the high of bar 1 and low of bar 2 either. So, at the end of bar 6, the Bar 2 low is considered as Pivot low.
Is this correct?

Yes........we have a sideways move, a range, a group of bars signifying indecision,and once we get a decision we are looking to add or to reverse.The low of the range is your reversal point.....The high of that range is your add point.Of course filter,etc.

If so, is the number of Bars 6 to be considered always for this exception case?

Nope......nothing like that....it could be 6,could be 4,could be 20.

One more question that could avoid few future questions on this.
The bar 1 high was 3356.50. Bar 3 high was 3351.00.
If the Bar 3 high was 3357, can we confirm Pivot Low at the end of Bar 3 itself.

Thanks,
PSJ

Yes,PSJ....Although would have preferred a few Rs more,but hypothetically speaking,yes.......enough for me to raise stops and declaring the low of Bar 2 as the latest pivot low.

Saint