Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[Saint]

Saint will not shut this thread nor will he stop posting. but what he actually wants to say is tht for how long we will remain dependent on each other.
very often confirming stops, pivots. He wants us to reach to a stage of maturity where we take decisions on our own.

He has served us the meal but we have to put it in our mouth.... and if u r not able to digest it..its ok...bring in some change(tweaks, ofcourse dont post here to spoil the magic of original). but i personally feel tht method is nicely profitable even without any tweak.


Dear Saint

if u want to test level of students of the method, stop posting levels for 20 or 25 days( not more thn tht). Hope fellow students dont get angry with me

kripal

That's what I did,Kripal.......still things in chaos though.....anyway,slowly and steadily things will improve.....If there is a desire to learn,and understand,then all else will fall in place.

Saint

 

[Saint]

I seem to have inadvertently hurt a lot of people judging from these posts and many pm's..........sincere apologies to all of you.

Saint

 

[columbus]

One thing i'd like to make clear, pls don't go by any of the rules i've stated above. I've just used it as an illustration of how the concept of pivots may be extended beyond the classical 5 finger form. I have no idea what the actual rules of the 60-min systems are. Some of musings on gaps etc. maybe totally irrelevant to the actual system.

SO PLEASE FOLLOW THE RULES AS SAINT HAS FORMULATED THEM.

Regards

I think SAINT is having a good ride on his bike (rather reputation BIKE),he deserves too.

 

[rkkarnani]

Read the theory again and again to bridge some of the "visual gaps" I have in my understanding. There is one which is particularly staring at me and I need to fill this gap. It is as under :

Now with the new rules of 60 min flow we will be trading the first 5 min bar on the visual gap days more often than we did with the earlier rules.My understanding of visual gap is that it has to gap from the earlier days entire range and not just from closing of the earlier day.

I take a definite example. NF range on Friday was as under :

High 3352

Low 3051

Close 3052

Our current position in this thread is short in NF.Now on Monday if NF first 5 min bar is as under :

Open : 3200 H : 3225 L : 3190

With this bar if you compare the opening with Friday's closing,then it is a huge gap of 150 nifty points but if you compare with the entire fridays range,there is no visual gap.

Now according to my present understanding,there is no visual gap so we dont reverse to long on break of 1st bars high +moving space

will someone confirm whether my understanding is right ?

If Mondays open is 3245 (hypothitical,I have no khabar,only for understanding ),or 20-25 points above the Fridays range,then will it be a visual gap ?

Thanks for putting up with my a bit slow learning,(hope seniors don't shout me out !!!

Smart_trade

My personal view :
Dont think it is the right way to interpret the visual gap!!! We tend to graviate towards your interpretation mainly becoz most of the recent Gaps have been such as described by you.
But Saint does not prescribe it this way!!!
Just have a look at the recent charts posted by Saint after making minor adjustments in the rule!!! Look at the short taken on 3rd July, to me it is clear that the short was taken because there was a visual gap!!! The gap as you will notice was not beyond the previous days range, in fact in this particular case the price was within the 3 PM bar but there was a BIG visual gap between previous days close and next days Open!!
Even in the charts posted earlier buy Saint I remember noticing the Gaps were as described by Saint : Visual!!! Only the rules for trading the Gaps have been amended not the Gaps!!!
Praying that my view is correct!!!

 

[Saint]

There were many posts after the mess up ,some claiming that people here are looking for only tips and not working hard, some wondering how people missed the pivot,but nobody really has gone to the main cause of this confusion.
Saint, people here have great respect for you and quite understandably so as you are the guiding light for many careers and many lives.People take your words as a gospel truth and are some times scared to express their opinion if they disagree with you. I am sure everybody noticed the pivot but the big confusion was as under :

Lets go back to the initial pages where you explained the new system.I am quoting as under post no 6545)

The Art of Trail Stopping using Pivots,I thought is obvious........but I think one needs to repeat it.It has been discussed at great lengths in the "Teach a Man to...."thread,but just to remind those of us who may have forgotten.

1.An uptrend is made up of higher pivot lows and highs......important is the lows in an uptrend.

2.A downtrend is made up of lower pivot highs and lows.......the focus is on the highs in a downtrend.

3.In an uptrend,everytime we make new highs,we bring our stops to the low of the recent pivot low.

EXCEPTION:Sometimes,in an uptrend,price makes a higher pivot low and does not go to new highs,and instead goes sideways for a period of time,or pulls back up and forms a clear cut lower high,but it must be visually obvious,.........and then falls through.Stops are therefore still at recent pivot lows although newer highs are not made...........But in both instances,the rule and the exception,those points are very visually obvious.

Though these are golden words but they here give an impression that in an uptrend,you must have a new high to consider the PL as stop and reverse point OR as EXCEPTION you must have a sideways movement for period of time or pull back and form lower PH,so in short a few sideways bar.

Now lets come to todays pivot,the mkt did not make new high and also broke down immediately in next bar after PL without making sideways movement on 60 min bars. So though everyone saw the pivot very clearly,there was a confusion that as per the new rules we reverse here or not.

And Saint very few people will be bold to come out with this Q after the earlier confusion on pivots,major,minor etc etc with the fear that ther will be scoffed at.And very few will take a contrary position to what they perceive as your new system rules. I did find something amiss and posted a question .

So the confusion is genuine,and most are working on these systems,have improved in their trading and they had also seen ythis pivot low quite well. So Saint dont think that your efforts are waste,they are highly useful in shaping a few successful trading careers.

Give benefit of doubt to this genuine confusion and carry on the great work Saint.

Respectlfully yours,

Smart_trade

Yes,my friend,got the source of the problem.......but yesterday was what is under the EXCEPTION part.......6 sideways bars before falling through.Sideways means range....not 6 bars of same highs and lows,but that price doesn't seem to be making a go ahead in either direction

This "new" system is the same thing that we have been doing all this while........except how we tackle Visual Gaps.

Saint

 

[Saint]

Saint can you please clear my doubt.
As per my understanding SAR is at 923.1 and I am still long in ABAN.

Hmmm......my charts looking different....no visual gap,waiting for pivots to form or 2bar method to trigger.

Pivots formed on BAR 2 of yesterday....short below the low of that bar.

Saint

 

[Saint]

Its evident Saint, we all don't want you to shut this thread down. This actually you had anticipated a long time ago.

You once said that you will never try to define a pivot because rigid rules will blind you from seeing one
But many things happened since then and you defined the pivot (not a mistake), a confusion came up and even I did not reverse my position.

I know you are disappointed , everyone saw the pivot but we were trying to fit the definition of the pivot into the chart (or what we perceive your golden words meant).

Anyway, now, just follow the eye....no more high this ; pivot that ; low whaat?!?
Plain simple vanilla pivot trading with the new gap rules.

MJ-

Everything the same,MJ..........the only difference is how we manage a visual gap......and we are still taking all pivots,except the ones you have no right taking.......now what does that mean.....will put it up later.

Decided the "neti,neti" attitude -----in this case, defining what is not a pivot----may be better than describing what a pivot is.

Saint

 

[Saint]

Saint

 

[Saint]

Read the theory again and again to bridge some of the "visual gaps" I have in my understanding. There is one which is particularly staring at me and I need to fill this gap. It is as under :

Now with the new rules of 60 min flow we will be trading the first 5 min bar on the visual gap days more often than we did with the earlier rules.My understanding of visual gap is that it has to gap from the earlier days entire range and not just from closing of the earlier day.

I take a definite example. NF range on Friday was as under :

High 3352

Low 3051

Close 3052

Our current position in this thread is short in NF.Now on Monday if NF first 5 min bar is as under :

Open : 3200 H : 3225 L : 3190

With this bar if you compare the opening with Friday's closing,then it is a huge gap of 150 nifty points but if you compare with the entire fridays range,there is no visual gap.

Now according to my present understanding,there is no visual gap so we dont reverse to long on break of 1st bars high +moving space

will someone confirm whether my understanding is right ?

If Mondays open is 3245 (hypothitical,I have no khabar,only for understanding ),or 20-25 points above the Fridays range,then will it be a visual gap ?

Thanks for putting up with my a bit slow learning,(hope seniors don't shout me out !!!

Smart_trade

First of all,if you aren't a senior,no idea who is.......if you haven't realised it by now,taking the privelege and liberty to anoint you Senior.

Don't think I got all the various angles to the question so feel free to get back to me on this one.

Basically,a Gap up to 3200,a H 3225 L3190,means you got your Visual Gap on the 60min Charts........a Gap that is Visually Evident on the 60min charts on zooming out your charts is a Visual Gap.

And with that Visual Gap comes the 5min rules.

Saint

 

[Saint]

My personal view :
Dont think it is the right way to interpret the visual gap!!! We tend to graviate towards your interpretation mainly becoz most of the recent Gaps have been such as described by you.
But Saint does not prescribe it this way!!!
Just have a look at the recent charts posted by Saint after making minor adjustments in the rule!!! Look at the short taken on 3rd July, to me it is clear that the short was taken because there was a visual gap!!! The gap as you will notice was not beyond the previous days range, in fact in this particular case the price was within the 3 PM bar but there was a BIG visual gap between previous days close and next days Open!!
Even in the charts posted earlier buy Saint I remember noticing the Gaps were as described by Saint : Visual!!! Only the rules for trading the Gaps have been amended not the Gaps!!!
Praying that my view is correct!!!

Absolutely correct,my friend.Thanks!

Saint