Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[musicjunkie]

This Plain simple vanilla pivots is the punch line MJ.

I can still remember Saint's Golden words at the start of this thread

60 min. flow is very simple method but not easy at all.

Yup going up on my wall right now !
IF i could figure out how to put a signature it would be " Plain Simple Vanilla Pivots"....

MJ-

 

[Prabhjeet]

Here are the charts of JPA with a method which though controversial may be profitable for those who dont see pivots as they form, though it should be just a adjunct to our EYE indicator

I say it again & again, plz. use this indicator i.e. ZIGZAG func. on metastock as just an adjunct until your EYE starts seeing pivots where they are, once your eye is trained, go with the eye. This indicator will atleast keep you with the trend.

Use Peaks as Pivot hi stoplosses in Downtrend and vice versa for Uptrend

 

[kkseal]

There goes - that reduces the problem a bit. Prabhjeet has probably used HIGH as the price field for the zig Obscures the low pivots a bit Using median price (H+L)/2 or average/typical price (H+L+C)/3 might be better. One can even use 2 separate zigs - one for the highs & the other for the lows, but is probably redundant & would clutter up the charts.

Regards

 

[kkseal]

What might reduce the problems further is to remember that the 5 finger pivot is really a subset of the broader category of (price based) support resistance (which would include price congestion zones often, but not always, resulting in chart patterns like rectangles, triangles etc.) and as such Saint's pivot trading method is really a subset of Breakout trading above/below resistance/support.

One can still stick to Pivots (& Pivot trading rules) while dealing with any kind of price congestion zone (support/resistance) by taking the highest & lowest price levels within the congestion zone as the 'Pivot' high & low. For e.g. when price say is consolidating in a triangular formation. Going by the pattern rules a breakout/breakdown would be defined as prices rising/falling above/below the pattern (triangle) boundary. But a pivot trader may define 'pivots' for the entire (triangular) congestion as the highest & lowest points within the pattern (which in the case of a triangle would be the 1st pair of high & low) and wait for price to move above/below these 'pivot' points before initiating a trade.

Even a gap can be considered a 'Pivot' imo. In the case of a gap up for instance (a 2 bar pattern) the high of the 1st bar can be considered a 'pivot' low & that of the 2nd bar a 'pivot' high. The pivot trader would then wait for a move above or below these points.

The above is just an opinion of mine. Saint can say better. Whatever the rules & other nitty-gritties might be, the point i'm trying to make is that much of the confusion can be alleviated if things are viewed in a broader perspective (transcending the copybook definitions).

Regards

 

[Prabhjeet]

There goes - that reduces the problem a bit. Prabhjeet has probably used HIGH as the price field for the zig Obscures the low pivots a bit Using median price (H+L)/2 or average/typical price (H+L+C)/3 might be better. One can even use 2 separate zigs - one for the highs & the other for the lows, but is probably redundant & would clutter up the charts.

Regards

I thought its understood that we use zig lo for finding pivot lo. So I say it clearly now, Use zig hi for stops in downtrend and Zig lo for uptrend.

The reason I didnt put zig lo on charts was that it would have looked very confusing

Same charts of JPA with Zig hi & Zig lo functions

 

[Smart_trade]

Read the theory again and again to bridge some of the "visual gaps" I have in my understanding. There is one which is particularly staring at me and I need to fill this gap. It is as under :

Now with the new rules of 60 min flow we will be trading the first 5 min bar on the visual gap days more often than we did with the earlier rules.My understanding of visual gap is that it has to gap from the earlier days entire range and not just from closing of the earlier day.

I take a definite example. NF range on Friday was as under :

High 3352

Low 3051

Close 3052

Our current position in this thread is short in NF.Now on Monday if NF first 5 min bar is as under :

Open : 3200 H : 3225 L : 3190

With this bar if you compare the opening with Friday's closing,then it is a huge gap of 150 nifty points but if you compare with the entire fridays range,there is no visual gap.

Now according to my present understanding,there is no visual gap so we dont reverse to long on break of 1st bars high +moving space

will someone confirm whether my understanding is right ?

If Mondays open is 3245 (hypothitical,I have no khabar,only for understanding ),or 20-25 points above the Fridays range,then will it be a visual gap ?

Thanks for putting up with my a bit slow learning,(hope seniors don't shout me out !!!

Smart_trade

 

[Saint]

Saint,

Deeply disturbed,for many years we at Traderji are indebted to you.We ourselves are very selfish & never want to part with anything & treat few things close to heart as family jewels,but probably most of us want evrything from others.You are the only exception amongst us.This method is one of the THE best method i have come across,frankly nowadays little ignorant about the New things you are trying.
Any anguish from your part is understandable but plz continue this thread in your suitable time.
We are all your Students plz forgive us.

Asish

Ouch Asish......that post probably came out the wrong way......was more of a query whether amidst all this if in some way people got any help from this method,whether there was a difference in how they see now as compared to before.

Probably got a bit upset.....apologies....never meant to say that planning to shut the thread,said that if this exercise is a waste of time and space,then probably need to shut it down.

Not very happy about the inability on my part to still communicate what I want to say,what I see.........more my failing than anything else......

But going to start trying again.

Saint

 

[TFL]

Welcomes you to put some light over this comment, Saint?
Hari.

Read the theory again and again to bridge some of the "visual gaps" I have in my understanding. There is one which is particularly staring at me and I need to fill this gap. It is as under :

Now with the new rules of 60 min flow we will be trading the first 5 min bar on the visual gap days more often than we did with the earlier rules.My understanding of visual gap is that it has to gap from the earlier days entire range and not just from closing of the earlier day.

I take a definite example. NF range on Friday was as under :

High 3352

Low 3051

Close 3052

Our current position in this thread is short in NF.Now on Monday if NF first 5 min bar is as under :

Open : 3200 H : 3225 L : 3190

With this bar if you compare the opening with Friday's closing,then it is a huge gap of 150 nifty points but if you compare with the entire fridays range,there is no visual gap.

Now according to my present understanding,there is no visual gap so we dont reverse to long on break of 1st bars high +moving space

will someone confirm whether my understanding is right ?

If Mondays open is 3245 (hypothitical,I have no khabar,only for understanding ),or 20-25 points above the Fridays range,then will it be a visual gap ?

Thanks for putting up with my a bit slow learning,(hope seniors don't shout me out !!!

Smart_trade

 

[kkseal]

What might reduce the problems further is to remember that the 5 finger pivot is really a subset of the broader category of (price based) support resistance (which would include price congestion zones often, but not always, resulting in chart patterns like rectangles, triangles etc.) and as such Saint's pivot trading method is really a subset of Breakout trading above/below resistance/support.

One can still stick to Pivots (& Pivot trading rules) while dealing with any kind of price congestion zone (support/resistance) by taking the highest & lowest price levels within the congestion zone as the 'Pivot' high & low. For e.g. when price say is consolidating in a triangular formation. Going by the pattern rules a breakout/breakdown would be defined as prices rising/falling above/below the pattern (triangle) boundary. But a pivot trader may define 'pivots' for the entire (triangular) congestion as the highest & lowest points within the pattern (which in the case of a triangle would be the 1st pair of high & low) and wait for price to move above/below these 'pivot' points before initiating a trade.

Even a gap can be considered a 'Pivot' imo. In the case of a gap up for instance (a 2 bar pattern) the high of the 1st bar can be considered a 'pivot' low & that of the 2nd bar a 'pivot' high. The pivot trader would then wait for a move above or below these points.

The above is just an opinion of mine. Saint can say better. Whatever the rules & other nitty-gritties might be, the point i'm trying to make is that much of the confusion can be alleviated if things are viewed in a broader perspective (transcending the copybook definitions).

Regards

One thing i'd like to make clear, pls don't go by any of the rules i've stated above. I've just used it as an illustration of how the concept of pivots may be extended beyond the classical 5 finger form. I have no idea what the actual rules of the 60-min systems are. Some of musings on gaps etc. maybe totally irrelevant to the actual system.

SO PLEASE FOLLOW THE RULES AS SAINT HAS FORMULATED THEM.

Regards

 

[pakatil]

Dear Friends,

Let us start becoming Simpletons, shunning aside overzealousness, complex thinking hats. The method by itself is damn simple. The toughest part is waiting for the SL to be hit once we are in Trade. Patience & Incomplex mind is the foundation of this Method.

My apologies, if any body is annoyed. Just musings of a lesser mortal.

Cheers