Going with the Intraday Mini-Flow!!

[Smart_trade]

Dear smart_trade,
I also have studied the setup given on page 77. but plz post what additional changes have been made after that regarding filter, adding to positon, profit booking using 12,20 min charts etc. plz also clear 2 bar rule
thanks in advance

nilaish

hi nilaish,


Hardly any changes done afterwards. We have moving filter of 14 for first move,7 for the next, fiilter is 7 all the way for fresh entry (except 1st move) and reversal and 5 for adds.

2 bars rule,just go back 3-4 days and we have atleast half a dozen posts (including a few from Saint) on this rule.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

 

[orderflow13]

hi nilaish,


Hardly any changes done afterwards. We have moving filter of 14 for first move,7 for the next, fiilter is 7 all the way for fresh entry (except 1st move) and reversal and 5 for adds.

2 bars rule,just go back 3-4 days and we have atleast half a dozen posts (including a few from Saint) on this rule.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

half a dozen is quite a understatement ..lol

 

[Smart_trade]

Hi ST, Believe me , try howsoever I may but there shall remain some diference in actual trades and paper trades and even paper trades and historical analysis!!! Yes, I have tried my best to paper trade as close to the real thing as possible!!!
I need help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ST, While finalising plans to enter actual trades from Monday I was trying to corelate my trades with those posted by Saint along with his charts!! and found that I still need to understand the system fully!!!! I have posted my doubts and request you also to help me put the trades in proper perspective!!!
I also request you to have a look at the charts of 14th Aug., there also I have not been able to understand the trades as mentioned by Saint!!! The entry is very clear, (though not triggered as per my data, but that is no issue) The down trend continues till 12 noon bar, which is the 4th bar making LL, though the LH was not made by 11.30 bar, now here you can observe what i was trying to say about a PH being formed in 15 TF if we have LL but miss out a LH in continuous 4 bars!!! We get a small PH in 15 minutes at 4482.50, or if we move our SAR 2 bars back it also comes to 4482.50.... if this is correct then we were to go long at 4490(4482.50+7)...The 1.30PM bar made a high of 4501!!!! But Saint has not gone long!!! So what is it that I am missing here!!!!
Have put my decision to commence actual trades are back on back burner, would like to continue to paper trade only for the time being!!!
Do reply per your convenience!!!
-R K Karnani
ps. : Though addressed to ST, please friends do give your input too!!!

Yes RKK,I saw the 14 August trades shown by Saint.He has not considered 15 min pivot high and also not 2 bars rule otherwise it would have triggered a long entry at 4490 and again SAR going short at 4466 and cover the shorts at 4430 (end of the day)

Saint,

Do the charts of Aug 08 posted by you need reworking considering we are also looking at 15 very actively now ? If so,dont burden yourself,you do for 1-2 days and rest we will do ourselves.


Smart_trade

 

[rkkarnani]

Dear RKK,
In the case of 4th, the movement was a congestion. To get clarity see the 15 min chart and from 11:30 bar it was rally in 15 min chart. Hence any reversal of trend, room is 7. Hence entering 11:30 bar -7.
I hope you will agree with me that any PH in 30 min bar will always be a pivot in 15 min. Hence your statement is answer itself.
Regarding, 6th aug, 11:30 bar has PL. Entry point is PL-room(here room for PL is 7)

Thanx for your input LVG,
On 4th , I agree that any PH in 30 minutes should be a PHin 15 minutes too, but LVG a PHin 15 may or may not be a PH in 30.....We have a PH in 15 TF at high of 2 PM bar and this PH is breached by the 3 PM bar....If we have a rule that once we get a PH in 30 minutes chart we do not look for PH in 15 minutes TF then it is okay!!! Otherwise it seems we should have reversed above the high of 2 PM bar!! As you say that 4th Movement was a congestion than more was the need to peek at 15 min. TF!!!

About 6th Aug. : Do we use a Filter of 7 points only when a PL is breached!!???irrespective of whether it is the first trade!!! The price was moving down from the start and we took this as a first trade ... the initial move did not breach the 10 AM high, hence thought that we need to have a filter of 14 points!!!
LVG, You have not commented on the second part about 6th August trade!! Any view on why we should not take the high of 12.30 PM as a valid PH in 30 minutes chart and its use as a SAR!!!???
I am eagerly awaiting input by Saint!!!

 

[rkkarnani]

Hello RKK Sir

The room 14 is only for the first move of the day, and not the first trade, the second move onwards it 7 ...

Thanks

Hi Nifty, My charts tell me that it was the first move only on 6th!!! Hence the confusion!!!

 

[rkkarnani]

Hello RKK Sir

The room 14 is only for the first move of the day, and not the first trade, the second move onwards it 7 ...

Thanks

On a relook I think I am getting it!!! The short trade was triggered after the move went up though it did not breach the days high!!! The move continued to be down till 11.30, then went up and came down!!!

Thanx NiftyChance!!!

 

[Sunil]

BreakOut Bar SAR:

Pivots first raised to the higher pivot low at 3320 - room.Then a breakout bar,and we look to add.Then that bearish bar after the breakout bar on the 15.....no problem,rest bar after a move up,cool.

Now comes an attempt and failure to breakout to new highs(all on the 15),and meanwhile 30 is putting up a bearish candle after 3 bullish bears after a near 200pt range.

The low of the 30min candle of 3352 breaks to the down,......we are not intent on just reversing there.But that breakout candle on the 15,if negated in entirety is bearish.That confirms a 15 and 30 signalling a drop.......and on a day of big moves,big bars,that is significant.

Raised stops to 3342-7=3335,shorts triggerred.Adds triggerred at 3302-5=3297

Saint

cross-reference to Library thread too

 

[Saint]

Hi Friends, I almost decided to join you all in real trades. The back test shows excellent results consistently. We may get two concecutive loosing days and once in a while even a loosing week (very very rare) but never a loosing calendar month!!!
However while trying to understand the Mini Flow had some doubts yet again and have addressed them to Saint as below!!! It is quiet possible that the same has already been discussed and clarified by Saint, please help me by either clarifying it again or posting a link to where Saint has clarified it!!! Requesting this to minimise the work load we already are giving Saint and at times he has to answer the same queries again and again!!! If anyone else can help it wud save Saint some trouble!!
Thanks!!!!!

Saint, While trying to have a look at the trades posted by you for August 2008 and matching them with the Rules as understood by me, I could not corelate the trade for a few days!!! Seems I am still lacking the basics!! Have gone through the Rules yet again but seems to be either overlooking something or misenterpreting some rule!!!
Ofcourse there can be data issues also for the difference in trades!!!

On 4th August we are short below the low of 11.30 AM bar less 7!!!
The 12 AM bar makes a HH and later becomes a PH in 30 TF!!
Would it be correct to say :"Now that we have a PH in 30 we do not look for a PH in 20/15 TF!!!"

On 6th August First trade (and Only trade for the day also) taken by you is Short at 4566 and exit at 4527!!!!
A bit hazy about how the level of 4566 was arrived at, maybe 7 points below the low of 11.30 (In my charts it is 4572.45) Also as per my charts this would be the first trade so a filter of 14 was required!!! In case due to data issues this is the secong trade then the matter is clear.
However as per my data the High of 11.30 AM bar is 4598.80, the short is not yet triggered as the Short level is continuously being trailed, So we are to go long at 4598.80 + 7 = 4505.80!!! The high of 12.30 PM bar is 4606.75, why we did not go long!! Further we see that this high of 12.30 PM : 4606.75 becomes a PH in 30 min.TF and this level is breached by the 2.30 PM bar's high of 4620!!!! But going long here also is not reflected in your trades posted along with the chart at :

http://www.traderji.com/day-trading-stocks/24071-going-intraday-mini-flow-78.html#post224562

It is either an ommission by you or plain simple non understanding of the basics by me!!! In eithr case do post your views!!!!

We have been slowly finetuning over the time since those charts ...... few changes have been made.Those charts will be deleted soon as the finetunes have made some differences in the way we trade those days.

I can't be reposting all charts.........NC or anyone can help me out there.

Starting as of Januray 1st 2008 from now.......

Thanx RK as always.
Saint

 

[segul]

We have been slowly finetuning over the time since those charts ...... few changes have been made.Those charts will be deleted soon as the finetunes have made some differences in the way we trade those days.

I can't be reposting all charts.........NC or anyone can help me out there.

Starting as of Januray 1st 2008 from now.......

Thanx RK as always.
Saint

Hi Saint,

I dont know how much strong my basics are in this strategy, but i can take up 3 months, may be month 3,4,5. Will try to post it by next weekend or so.

Regards.

 

[Saint]

Presuming a capital of 10L.Roughly,initial size 5lots,add 3 lots,next add 1 lot

JANUARY 2008

JAN 1st :BAR 1 H6150,L6121......BAR 3 6154---no trades so far.BAR 5 H6159----No trades so far,but entry now at 6174.BAR 6---Entry Long at 6174,SL 6122-7=6115.........After that,sideways to mild declines.....Exit at 6160.

Profit/Loss=-3500.Capital at the end of day=9.965L

JAN 2nd :BAR 1 H6167,L 6144.BAR 2-------Short at 6144-14=6130. SL at 6177.BAR 3------Add at 6087-5=6082,then a Bottoming Tail,Doji.Look at 15min chart.Nothing to react to.BAR 4----one more bearish candle.Nothing to be done,stops still at high of the day + room.BAR 5-----New lows and then a quick move up,ending the 30mins as a bullish candle.Check the 15mins chart.Pivots at 6108.Move stops down from 6177 to 6108+7=6115.BAR 8-----Triggers a reversal.By this bar,we have a higher pivot low on the 30,a bottoming tail,doji on the 60 and pivots on the 15.........all timeframes in line for a reversal...........Profit/Loss=-250

BAR 8:Long at 6115,SL 6054 ............BAR 9:Add at 6128.SL at 6085........ BAR 10:Add at 6162.SL 6100(pivots on 15).......Exit all at end of day at 6223.
Profit/Loss= +44550

Total for the day=+44550-250=44300
Capital for tomorrow=10.408L

JAN 3rd :Entry at 6207 on Bar 2,Stopped out at pivots on 30 at 4191-7=4184.Short at 4184,cover at 6176.

End of day Profits/Loss=-5750 + 2000=-3750
Capital for tomorrow=10.371

JAN 4th :Entry long at 6249 at BAR 3,ADD at 6266 at BAR 7.....EXIT at 6251 at last bar......Loss=-1600.Capital for next day=10.355

JAN 7th :ENTRY at 6233,add at 6269.......Exit at 6288.Profits=+16600
Capital for next day=10.521

JAN 8th :ENTRY Short at 6283 at Bar 3....BAR 4--Add at 6259......Bottoming tail,but still closed bearish.Stops at day's high still.15min no pivots.Keep stops.BAR 5,6,7 Bullish candles on lower volumes,still no pivots on 15.Keep stops where they are.BAR 8,9,10-----all bearish candles.Tighten stops at high of previous bar as we approach the end of day.Bar 11---Exit at 6262.Profits at 4800.Capital for next day=10.569

JAN 9th :Short at 6232,stops at 6273+7=6280....BAR 5:Stopped and reversed at 6280.SL 6226.....ADD 1 at 6293.BAR 9,raise sl to low of Bar 7,Bar 10 making new highs,raise sl to Bar 8 low.Reversal triggerred at 6293-7=6286
BAR 10:Short at 6286,close at 6261.

Trade 1=-12000,Trade 2=+400,Trade 3=+6250
End of day=-5350.....Capital for tomorrow:10.516

JAN 10th :Long at 6309 in BAR 3,SL 6265........Stopped and reversed.Shorts at 6265,ADD 1 AT 6260-5=6255,ADD 2 at 6247-5=6242.Exit at 6159.

TRADE 1=-11000
TRADE 2=+45000

End of Day=+34k......Capital for next day=10.856


Think will keep doing this till we catch up till present day.

Saint