M6 - Man, Mind, Money, Markets, Method & Madness

[toocool]

The Wolf Hunters of Wall Street

Excerpt of the article which appeared in NY Times taken from the Book - Flash Boys by Michael Lewis

(While I had just presumed, now the realization has dawned after reading this article... How much are we losing to the biggies with with co-location advantage on NSE? Do we know how our orders are routed? Do our brokers have their own darkpools? Would they have systems to glean information from our orders and place corresponding orders on NSE before ours? What about the fractional advantage the HFT get by placing/cancelling order a few mirco-seconds early? A lot of unanswered questions here.....)

few months ago , when i had gone into hibernation of posting in forum ,there something astonishing happened when i was placing an order in most probably in MCX on crude , i do not remember but it must be MCX only because only in MCX the far month contracts have 30-40-50 points difference and sometimes 100 .............i do not know why and how i started but i surely wasnt trading crude.

the spread was very wide so i punched a sell or buy order , dont remember exactly , not even price , but as soon as i punched order the rate changed , i was amazed , my order should have been the best order(buy or sell whatever it was) but it wasnt , then i tried again and again and again................i was so shocked and amazed , and i knew that spread was so wide that i kept doing it for 10-15 minutes ...............it became like a game for me , and i knew that order will not get filled , however by my actions the spread kept becoming less wider and less and less...............then since i was just playing and as being a 6 year old trader , i had understood that it was a computer setup , by who? i donno ................but as i stopped putting order in 10-15 minutes the spread became wider again , at its original level .

i am damn sure same kind of things happens in NSE ,BSE too ............and anyone having MCX may try in far month contract even now , i am sure it will keep happening , i dont have MCX access now .

i have stopped trading in nifty intraday, but with time i think , i might start again with some methodology and inner strength to tackle it , also , current month futures may have different style of some minor manipulation .basically algo is an unfair advantage to these ***** , yes its manipulation and not natural way of trading , but i have firm belief still money can be made by normal trader , although algo does affect us for sure

 

[DSM]

Yep, seen it myself as well.... try to place a limit buy/sell order in options.... your order will get pushed back. Cancel and better it, and the same thing..... happens in fractions of seconds... and your order does not get a chance....

few months ago , when i had gone into hibernation of posting in forum ,there something astonishing happened when i was placing an order in most probably in MCX on crude , i do not remember but it must be MCX only because only in MCX the far month contracts have 30-40-50 points difference and sometimes 100 .............i do not know why and how i started but i surely wasnt trading crude.

the spread was very wide so i punched a sell or buy order , dont remember exactly , not even price , but as soon as i punched order the rate changed , i was amazed , my order should have been the best order(buy or sell whatever it was) but it wasnt , then i tried again and again and again................i was so shocked and amazed , and i knew that spread was so wide that i kept doing it for 10-15 minutes ...............it became like a game for me , and i knew that order will not get filled , however by my actions the spread kept becoming less wider and less and less...............then since i was just playing and as being a 6 year old trader , i had understood that it was a computer setup , by who? i donno ................but as i stopped putting order in 10-15 minutes the spread became wider again , at its original level .

i am damn sure same kind of things happens in NSE ,BSE too ............and anyone having MCX may try in far month contract even now , i am sure it will keep happening , i dont have MCX access now .

i have stopped trading in nifty intraday, but with time i think , i might start again with some methodology and inner strength to tackle it , also , current month futures may have different style of some minor manipulation .basically algo is an unfair advantage to these ***** , yes its manipulation and not natural way of trading , but i have firm belief still money can be made by normal trader , although algo does affect us for sure

 

[amitrandive]

i am damn sure same kind of things happens in NSE ,BSE too ............and anyone having MCX may try in far month contract even now , i am sure it will keep happening , i dont have MCX access now .

i have stopped trading in nifty intraday, but with time i think , i might start again with some methodology and inner strength to tackle it , also , current month futures may have different style of some minor manipulation .basically algo is an unfair advantage to these ***** , yes its manipulation and not natural way of trading , but i have firm belief still money can be made by normal trader , although algo does affect us for sure

toocool/DSM

Even if people are not aware , this is actually happening in NSE and BSE too.
How can the market suddenly fall and rise by 50-70 points in 5 minutes.Surely this is not by manual traders.

Algorithms have made it almost impossible to trade intraday.

The market manipulators,and all the ***** people involved in this actually cheat the people for money.Unethical *****.

 

[DSM]

Try to use what you learn to your advantage... if there is an uptrend and a big drop in price. Is is buyable? With time and experience we can make better judgements. Even keeping in a 50% probability, when you set a small SL for bigger target, you can still come out ahead in the game.....

And when it comes to money, don't expect people to behave ethically. Trying lending a couple of thousands to a friend, and you will know....

toocool/DSM

Even if people are not aware , this is actually happening in NSE and BSE too.
How can the market suddenly fall and rise by 50-70 points in 5 minutes.Surely this is not by manual traders.

Algorithms have made it almost impossible to trade intraday.

The market manipulators,and all the ***** people involved in this actually cheat the people for money.Unethical *****.

 

[toocool]

toocool/DSM

Even if people are not aware , this is actually happening in NSE and BSE too.
How can the market suddenly fall and rise by 50-70 points in 5 minutes.Surely this is not by manual traders.

Algorithms have made it almost impossible to trade intraday.

The market manipulators,and all the ***** people involved in this actually cheat the people for money.Unethical *****.

exactly why i started swing trading .

computer and algo is legal , but yes it needs to be scrutinized , btw markets can and will fall and rise suddenly when time comes

 

[Somatung]

exactly why i started swing trading .

computer and algo is legal , but yes it needs to be scrutinized , btw markets can and will fall and rise suddenly when ever time comes

Yep, this is very true. It even happens ten years and more ago, when HFT not was well adapted into the market. For example: Can remember some announcements from the Fed about Bonds which did make the market spike up or spike down even at those times. Spikes which happen in seconds.

 

[DSM]

Also, if we watch important announcements, company results, the price will spike in both directions, taking off stops both long and shorts. Result season is near, we can watch this happen soon..... Have wondered if it is tradable? Set a buy below/sell above limit order at extreme price points or certain ATR level? But ofcourse, it is always taking a risk..... even if not trading an event/announcement, we can watch the charts in real time, see what is happening and use it for the next time.

Yep, this is very true. It even happens ten years and more ago, when HFT not was well adapted into the market. For example: Can remember some announcements from the Fed about Bonds which did make the market spike up or spike down even at those times. Spikes which happen in seconds.

 

[Somatung]

Also, if we watch important announcements, company results, the price will spike in both directions, taking off stops both long and shorts. Result season is near, we can watch this happen soon..... Have wondered if it is tradable? Set a buy below/sell above limit order at extreme price points or certain ATR level? But ofcourse, it is always taking a risk..... even if not trading an event/announcement, we can watch the charts in real time, see what is happening and use it for the next time.

Many of bigger brokerage and even investment companies close there positions in the market before such announcements. They are clear some have the information a bit earlier compare to them and they let them play there games. If a real trend starts after such announcements, who matters as there is still enough money to make with it. There are some other ways to trade such events, but this is for hard core traders. As far as I remember, this guy is trading such stuff or at least gave an idea how to do it: http://www.traderji.com/forex/70864-euro-trading-danpickup-2.html#post699206

By the way: Dear DSM, I thought you are on the road https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TD_pSeNelU

 

[DSM]

Thanks.... Dear Somatung. I did not know Mr. Timepass was trading basis events.... But as I am trading commodities, the weekly data for Crude, NG, NFP, etc. is an important event. Re. Crude, I have been posting on the thread, and it has been a 6/6 for me so for.

Am on the road from tomorrow noon. So will miss the Crude Inventory trade this week.

BTW once remember TCS results (TCS is similar to Infy in business, but larger by market cap) the results were good, and the price spiked. I was a bit of novice then, and froze..... the stock climbed up, up and away...... for the day the MTM would have been 10K, but missed. TCS continued upwards for the next two days.... For a few quarters have been watching stocks post result announcements.... but not traded. Not sure, but would like to try my hand now, if there is a good opportunity..... lets see.

Many of bigger brokerage and even investment companies close there positions in the market before such announcements. They are clear some have the information a bit earlier compare to them and they let them play there games. If a real trend starts after such announcements, who matters as there is still enough money to make with it. There are some other ways to trade such events, but this is for hard core traders. As far as I remember, this guy is trading such stuff or at least gave an idea how to do it: http://www.traderji.com/forex/70864-euro-trading-danpickup-2.html#post699206

By the way: Dear DSM, I thought you are on the road https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TD_pSeNelU

 

[Somatung]

Thanks.... Dear Somatung. I did not know Mr. Timepass was trading basis events.... But as I am trading commodities, the weekly data for Crude, NG, NFP, etc. is an important event. Re. Crude, I have been posting on the thread, and it has been a 6/6 for me so for.

Am on the road from tomorrow noon. So will miss the Crude Inventory trade this week.

BTW once remember TCS results (TCS is similar to Infy in business, but larger by market cap) the results were good, and the price spiked. I was a bit of novice then, and froze..... the stock climbed up, up and away...... for the day the MTM would have been 10K, but missed. TCS continued upwards for the next two days.... For a few quarters have been watching stocks post result announcements.... but not traded. Not sure, but would like to try my hand now, if there is a good opportunity..... lets see.

Well, I meant the other guy which doubled his investment in minutes. http://www.traderji.com/forex/70864-euro-trading-danpickup-2.html#post699213 Just check the buy and sell order.