Teach A Man To Fish And.........

[vvvv]

Hi Saint,

First of all a big thanks for your pivot trading technique. I have been practicing it since last two three months with my online trading account with a quantity of just 1 share and was reversing my position with 2 shares when I am stopped out - so i was always in trade whether up or down with open position of 1 share. Since I was trying it out with a minuscle quantity it did not matter whether i was wrong or right as i wanted to learn why i am right and why i am wrong.

This system works wonderfully in trending market but gives whiplashes when I am trading shorter time frame . I tried to time my trade with few other indicators and it is working at its best.

My Query :

Set up is -

A stock is in weekly uptrend and I have entered a long trade when it has broken a pivot high on daily time frame.
I have set my stop loss on break of immediate pivot low on daily time frame.

Now -

Once I am in trade at break of pivot high - stock just inches up and retraces back the whole up move back to pivot low and just inches down and my trade stops out - at a deep loss. Some scrips have a range of 30-40 rs between pivot highs and lows and when they are forming expanding traingles - you get stopped out at both the ends. How can you avoid such a trade ?

I tried to follow my trade daily - and since was getting stopped out , i tried putting my stops on smaller time frame so that I can save on my losses - but that didnt help. It did reduce my losses , but logically i was not correct and was not knowing why should i change to shorter time frame.

Also while stock is perfectly exibiting a trend , sometimes the false opening prices use to distort my charts and even indicators and they were giving me false moves. I tried to rectify this by ignoring this price or the movement for first half hour. But than it was not helping always. Does this false opening prices signify something? Is it some kind of a signal that says - the stock should go in that direction and near that price. ( my assumption )

Also sometimes , stock remain in sideways for long time and you get stopped out at the both the points leaving nothing on table.

My understanding we can avoid this loss only by knowing that the scrip is a avoid / it is making expanding traingles ( but that I will know only after few loosing trades ) / scrip is in sideways ( that will take atleast two loosing trades ) But then how u can know this ? How to know when not to trade ?

Your help will be appreciated as always.

Thanks for everything.

- Regards

keep ur last pivot low & pivot high as ur immediate support & resist level.in a sieways market u can swing trade between these 2 ends.check out the candle formations at the pivot highs & lows.they signify trend reversals most of the time.attaching a chart of acc.hopes this helps & correct me if im wrong.most indicators will fail in a sideways market.pivots will work in a sideways market but u have to view it thru a diff perspective.remember u dont have a trend in a sideways market but u r taking a chance to make profits which is difficult.if u can beat this market u can beat the trending market too.
read all three 3 steve nison books over & over again.i have startd re-reading again.
hope saint wud tell us sumthin abt he approaches a sideways market

 

[SGM]

Hello S. Star

Its very nice idea to trade with 1 share rather than do mock trading. Good work there. I think many guys ( n grls) who are doing paper should start doing this.

You have mentioned that when you are Stopped Out you are Reversing the Position. So when weekly is in an uptrend and you have a long trade on, being stopped out you also go short on a break of Previous Higher Pivot Low on Daily? Isn't it a wrong entry for a Short?

In this case the weekly is in the uptrend, on daily the last higher pivot low is broken but if a Lower Pivot High is not in place, thats not a downtrend even on daily.

From your post it seems that you are doing lots of experimentations, thats very nice. Using indicators is your choice, as they say whatever works for you. You will need a huge sample size to come to conclusion about what is working and what is not. You might also need to do some back testing/walk throughs for your indicators.

Don't change strat or timeframe midway, decide on one thing/combination and stay with it.

Sideways markets are tough to trade, but very good to learn. And yes we do not know in advance they are upon us. Saint has also shown us an effective way to tackle such market conditions.

Regards
Sanjay

 

[vvvv]

gud book on timeframe analysis wud be elder ray's books,where he talks abt triple screen methods.havent used it practically.

 

[Sharestar]

Thanks VVVV/Sanjay,

Yes what you say is correct - if we trade using last pivot high and low as our immediate support and resistence then our trade should be in the direction of the break out - if we are trading intraday/daily time frame and are looking for trade after break out or we should just play between the two ends. I agree and have been doing it successfully.

What Sanjay says - is we should only take position in the direction of the weekly trend if i understand correctly. Means if i am long on break of pivot high - when the weekly is up , i should not reverse my trade when it gets stopped out because that is against the major trend.

To sum up -

Long only - when immediately pivot high is broken and weekly is up. If you get stopped out , book your loss and look for another opportunity to long but do not short. Follow this untill the weekly pivot low is not breeched.

Short only - when immediately pivot low is broken and weekly is down. If you get stopped out, book your loss and look for another opportunity to short but do not go long. Follow this untill weekly pivot high is not breeched.

Perfect as per text book.

But - sometimes i find the distance between pivot high and low is too far for us get stopped out and yet remain profitable. Sometimes i see prices consolidating in a narrow range and forming a compressing traingle or we see a expanding traingle and prices piercing the ends both ways and making me uncomfortable. Also sometimes in a bigger range - there is zig zag price pattern intraday and it stops me out both ways.

I have written all my experience - i have encountered in actual trading and the instances when i have booked loss. Ultimately - what i feel is i lag some training in position sizing. There is no way we can always be in a right trade in a right direction and at a right time. What best we can do is - if we are wrong we make small losses but if we remain right we make big money by holding on to our trade in right direction.

How can we know that price has peaked/bottomed - when there is sudden fast movement in a particular direction and yet it has not breeched any pivots. If we wait for the break of pivot to close our trade , many times virtually we loose lot of points before we actually know that it has peaked or bottomed out. Is there any way - by which we can know - it is time to come out.

Can there be any confluence of indicators which can help us? I am watching RSI/ADX and they dance but ultimately it becomes very difficult to conclude a trade because these too give wrong moves in the direction of the price action but with volumes of little significance. And same remains true for pivot break out with pathetic volumes in uncertain times.

Thanks for reading me and I am sorry if my query is a repeatation - unknowingly.

- Regards

keep ur last pivot low & pivot high as ur immediate support & resist level.in a sieways market u can swing trade between these 2 ends.check out the candle formations at the pivot highs & lows.they signify trend reversals most of the time.attaching a chart of acc.hopes this helps & correct me if im wrong.most indicators will fail in a sideways market.pivots will work in a sideways market but u have to view it thru a diff perspective.remember u dont have a trend in a sideways market but u r taking a chance to make profits which is difficult.if u can beat this market u can beat the trending market too.
read all three 3 steve nison books over & over again.i have startd re-reading again.
hope saint wud tell us sumthin abt he approaches a sideways market

 

[sanjoy_roy]

hello Saint Bhai,

Remember, the other day I PM'd you that I had some queries. Well, I thot why not do some combing of our forum b4 bothering you. I can say that most of them have been answered now barring a few. and one of them is --- How does Saint scans the ocean of stocks to find which one has formed the right setup for ENTRY? naked eye or any specific query language?

Hoping that you spot this post and have time to reply.

Thanks in advance,
Sanjoy

 

[gkpc]

This thread is something like what follows in the following story :

Think Simple to Solve Complex Problems.



When NASA began launching astronauts into space, they found out that the astronauts' pens wouldn't work at zero gravity (ink wouldn't flow down to the writing surface). It took them one decade and $12 million to solve this problem. They developed a pen that worked at zero gravity, upside down, underwater, on practically any surface including crystal, and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300 degrees C.

And what did the Russians do? The Russians used a pencil.

So Saint did not go for RSI,MS,MACD, Smoothed this and that , he also used a Pencil : THE PIVOTS.
Great read, though still to grasp the thing becoz of my own IQ level. But undoubtedly very simple to use !!!

 

[Tapaswi.S]

This thread is something like what follows in the following story :

Think Simple to Solve Complex Problems.



When NASA began launching astronauts into space, they found out that the astronauts' pens wouldn't work at zero gravity (ink wouldn't flow down to the writing surface). It took them one decade and $12 million to solve this problem. They developed a pen that worked at zero gravity, upside down, underwater, on practically any surface including crystal, and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300 degrees C.

And what did the Russians do? The Russians used a pencil.

So Saint did not go for RSI,MS,MACD, Smoothed this and that , he also used a Pencil : THE PIVOTS.
Great read, though still to grasp the thing becoz of my own IQ level. But undoubtedly very simple to use !!!

Nice one gkpc, thinking out of the box!

Tapaswi.S

 

[riz]

Graphing Tools

Hello all,

I'm new to this thread. Just recently became interested in stock markets. Reason: want to be financially independent as soon as possible. This thread is really awesome. I really appreciate all the hard work by Saint and others.

I have one question:

What graphing tools do you recommend for a beginner? Right now I work fulltime, so I don't really have time to trade intraday. Firstly, I need to know how to get my hands on stock data (daily, weekly, etc.) in a nice format, and also a graphing tool that will easily import that data, and allow me to draw lines and such. I've looked at Metastock, but it seems quite expensive, and also from their website it seems only interprets data from isignal and quotecenter, which also are very expensive.

Thanks

Riz

 

[gsm]

This thread is something like what follows in the following story :

Think Simple to Solve Complex Problems.



When NASA began launching astronauts into space, they found out that the astronauts' pens wouldn't work at zero gravity (ink wouldn't flow down to the writing surface). It took them one decade and $12 million to solve this problem. They developed a pen that worked at zero gravity, upside down, underwater, on practically any surface including crystal, and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300 degrees C.

And what did the Russians do? The Russians used a pencil.

So Saint did not go for RSI,MS,MACD, Smoothed this and that , he also used a Pencil : THE PIVOTS.
Great read, though still to grasp the thing becoz of my own IQ level. But undoubtedly very simple to use !!!

Top Stroke
gsm

 

[uasish]

Re: Graphing Tools

Hello all,

I'm new to this thread. Just recently became interested in stock markets. Reason: want to be financially independent as soon as possible. This thread is really awesome. I really appreciate all the hard work by Saint and others.

I have one question:

What graphing tools do you recommend for a beginner? Right now I work fulltime, so I don't really have time to trade intraday. Firstly, I need to know how to get my hands on stock data (daily, weekly, etc.) in a nice format, and also a graphing tool that will easily import that data, and allow me to draw lines and such. I've looked at Metastock, but it seems quite expensive, and also from their website it seems only interprets data from isignal and quotecenter, which also are very expensive.

Thanks

Riz

Riz,

A warm Welcome to the Forum.You are at the RIGHT thread from the begining.Saint is presently attending his personal front,he will definetly revert back shortly.

Asish