Trading With CrossOver And BB

[vanram]

Mr. savant.

my apologies if I sounded harsh.

My intention was to draw everybody's attention to the fact that crossover with BB itself is a very profitable system and that there is no need to look for other indicators.

and yes. there will be whiplashes and occassional loosing days. they are part of traders life. we have to take them in our stride and move on. but, at the end of the week/ month the account will be in sufficient profits.

Thank you very much for the clarification you have given.:clapping:

 

[SavantGarde]

Hi Vanram,

There Was Nothing In Your Post To Sound Harsh....I Am Glad Through Your Query....I Was Able To Clarify Many Things For Others.

It Is The Same System Through Which I Was Able Post Triggers From February Onwards, Although There Was Just 2 In February & Most Of The Balance Triggers Came During March & April....Returns On Those In My Opinion Were Not Bad, Inspite Of My Repeated Effort At Trying To Tell Friends Here That Market is Going To Go Up...I Don't Think Many Took Advantage Of It...I Guess It Has Now Dawned On Them That It Is A Sound Strategy....I Guess Next Time Round Friends Here Will Be More Amenable To Fresh Triggers....& Hopefully Will Be Able To Generate Them On Their Own

Thanks A Ton !!!

Happy & Safer Trading

SavantGarde

Mr. savant.

my apologies if I sounded harsh.

My intention was to draw everybody's attention to the fact that crossover with BB itself is a very profitable system and that there is no need to look for other indicators.

and yes. there will be whiplashes and occassional loosing days. they are part of traders life. we have to take them in our stride and move on. but, at the end of the week/ month the account will be in sufficient profits.

Thank you very much for the clarification you have given.:clapping:

 

[lancer]

Mr. Savant,

I think your original idea was to create "a trading system for dumbs"
which should be really simple.

but, here I am seeing people taking entries based on BB, ( which I believe you want to be an exit strategy.)

and now, a new indicator in the shape of stochastics.

so, we have 1) 4&5 or 5&6 cross over, 2) BB 20,2 or 9,2, 3) sma 9 or 20 and now4) stochastics (5,3,3) or With Either SMA Or EMA Or (5,3,4).

what next?

My humble request. as can be seen from the discussions & charts posted earlier, SMA crossover( with occasional help from BB) itself is giving beautiful returns. so, why not fine tune it with proper initial stoploss and profit booking strategies?

I am sorry if I am wrong.

Hi Vanram,

I am a dumbo as well to trading, having entered into it only a couple of months back. Savant, was simply trying to help me out to understand the intricacies of *Whipsaw* bevavior of the market on the "stochastics" indicator, where one can take an early entry or exit to optimize the risk factor. Take it or leave it !

SMA crossover and BB piercing are definitely enough. Have been watching the Stoch. indicator throughout the day and have been trding with it, alongwith Crossovers and BB. It only works as an "EARLY WARNING SYSTEM", to take a position. It does work well where you are dealing with volatile FNO counters like Suzlon for day trading.

Coming to stop loss. Put as many S/L, one may like it gets hit 90% of the time, when the market is uncertain and range bound. And you end up the day with colossal losses.

BTW taking all the parameters into account and cautiously working with longs and shorts ended the day with +12 with a lot size of 6000, which comes to apprx. 72 thousand- brokerage. It more than made up for my losses the previous day.Is it not enough?

I do thank Savant, for being a good teacher. On account knowledge there is nothing like 'ENOUGH'. It is just endless and it all depends on the pupil to learn and absorb; when the teacher is prepared to impart.

You have been rather unfair with your words on a person, who is selflessly prepared to share his kowhow for others to gain. And I have no intention of turning this thread to ward of attritions. My regrets, if any.

Wishes,

Lancer.

 

[SavantGarde]

Wo Wo Wo Lancer,

There You Go Taking Things Personally.

Now Here Are Few Things I Gathered From Vanram's Post, He Knows The Whole Strategy...& Has Tested It Thoroughly & Likes The Simplicity Of It All, His Point Was Not Directed At You, In Essence What He Meant Was If Something So Simple Works Well Enough, Why Complicate It With Other Indicators.

The Reason I Mentioned The Stochastic To You Was So That In Your Initial Stage You Don't Loose Faith In The Original System Trading F&O Where Lot Sizes Are Huge Due To Losses....Eventually, You Will Not Need The Stochastic Once You Have Been Trading For A Year, During Which Time One Shall Also Learn Idiosyncracies Of Individual Stocks That You Have Been Trading.

Next Time Don't Be So Quick To Pull The Trigger....

I Am Glad You Recovered Yesterdays Loss....Not Bad For Somebody Who Has Been Trading Only For A Couple Of Months...That Even I Didn't Know....

Happy & Safer Trading

SavantGarde

Hi Vanram,

I am a dumbo as well to trading, having entered into it only a couple of months back. Savant, was simply trying to help me out to understand the intricacies of *Whipsaw* bevavior of the market on the "stochastics" indicator, where one can take an early entry or exit to optimize the risk factor. Take it or leave it !

SMA crossover and BB piercing are definitely enough. Have been watching the Stoch. indicator throughout the day and have been trding with it, alongwith Crossovers and BB. It only works as an "EARLY WARNING SYSTEM", to take a position. It does work well where you are dealing with volatile FNO counters like Suzlon for day trading.

Coming to stop loss. Put as many S/L, one may like it gets hit 90% of the time, when the market is uncertain and range bound. And you end up the day with colossal losses.

BTW taking all the parameters into account and cautiously working with longs and shorts ended the day with +12 with a lot size of 6000, which comes to apprx. 72 thousand- brokerage. It more than made up for my losses the previous day.Is it not enough?

I do thank Savant, for being a good teacher. On account knowledge there is nothing like 'ENOUGH'. It is just endless and it all depends on the pupil to learn and absorb; when the teacher is prepared to impart.

You have been rather unfair with your words on a person, who is selflessly prepared to share his kowhow for others to gain. And I have no intention of turning this thread to ward of attritions. My regrets, if any.

Wishes,

Lancer.

 

[scorpio77]

Hi Vanram,

I agree with Lancer. No one in this forum doubts for a second that the SMA crossover is an excellent and simple system that works very well on stocks and index futures.

We are, in the past few posts, evaluating whether we can apply this to intraday trading and now F&O. I firmly believe that knowledge comes with experimenting new stuff and learning as you go. One also runs a huge risk the day one feels that he needs to experiment / learn no more.

The biggest risk of applying this to F&O is the impact of whipsaw on account of the volatility. It is definitely a blessing if we find an indicator that would warn us in advance. Otherwise, we may end up making the broker happy by frequent reversals!!!

I rest my case by posting the past two day's 15 min chart with all indicators as per Savant's post some minutes back (self-explanatory). I guess, it is for Savant to decide if we will continue to track any new indicators in this thread.

Hi Vanram,

I am a dumbo as well to trading, having entered into it only a couple of months back. Savant, was simply trying to help me out to understand the intricacies of *Whipsaw* bevavior of the market on the "stochastics" indicator, where one can take an early entry or exit to optimize the risk factor. Take it or leave it !

SMA crossover and BB piercing are definitely enough. Have been watching the Stoch. indicator throughout the day and have been trding with it, alongwith Crossovers and BB. It only works as an "EARLY WARNING SYSTEM", to take a position. It does work well where you are dealing with volatile FNO counters like Suzlon for day trading.

Coming to stop loss. Put as many S/L, one may like it gets hit 90% of the time, when the market is uncertain and range bound. And you end up the day with colossal losses.

BTW taking all the parameters into account and cautiously working with longs and shorts ended the day with +12 with a lot size of 6000, which comes to apprx. 72 thousand- brokerage. It more than made up for my losses the previous day.Is it not enough?

I do thank Savant, for being a good teacher. On account knowledge there is nothing like 'ENOUGH'. It is just endless and it all depends on the pupil to learn and absorb; when the teacher is prepared to impart.

You have been rather unfair with your words on a person, who is selflessly prepared to share his kowhow for others to gain. And I have no intention of turning this thread to ward of attritions. My regrets, if any.

Wishes,

Lancer.

 

[lancer]

Wo Wo Wo Lancer,

There You Go Taking Things Personally.

Now Here Are Few Things I Gathered From Vanram's Post, He Knows The Whole Strategy...& Has Tested It Thoroughly & Likes The Simplicity Of It All, His Point Was Not Directed At You, In Essence What He Meant Was If Something So Simple Works Well Enough, Why Complicate It With Other Indicators.

The Reason I Mentioned The Stochastic To You Was So That In Your Initial Stage You Don't Loose Faith In The Original System Trading F&O Where Lot Sizes Are Huge Due To Losses....Eventually, You Will Not Need The Stochastic Once You Have Been Trading For A Year, During Which Time One Shall Also Learn Idiosyncracies Of Individual Stocks That You Have Been Trading.

Next Time Don't Be So Quick To Pull The Trigger....

I Am Glad You Recovered Yesterdays Loss....Not Bad For Somebody Who Has Been Trading Only For A Couple Of Months...That Even I Didn't Know....

Happy & Safer Trading

SavantGarde

Hi Savant,

I am not a very trigger happy person. But on the knowledge corner I am game for it. Before I joined this forum, my idea was that stock market is all a gamble, having coolly sunk about 5 lakhs by 2002.

Before that converted 1 lakh to 8 lakhs with Wipro Bull Run, within a couple of weeks. Switched to Satyam at 3000 and sold at 6800 expanding the portfolio to 20 lakhs. Entered Himachal Futuristic, Pentasoft etc etcetc. and lost all, all on the tips my broker. I am not giving a sob story here but a lesson to all where one has to understand his own limitations.

And the biggest joke of all is that got 20000 shares of GE SHIPPING @ 14.10 and sold at 16.20.To top it all they used to consistently give dividents of 20 % on Rs 10 face value.:clap:

Gave the last run a miss as I had lost faith on the market. Now that i am getting a hang of it and somebody says enough is enough of learning.

Till I am coversant with vaguaries of different counters, STOCH. is handy as some counters do not react much to it. But what is exactly the harm of keeping the chart at the bottom to ascertain the momentum?

I do understand the virtue of simplicity.And I have nothing against Vanram. But, personally speaking the quotes could have been phrased in a more palatable manner.

Wishes,

Lancer.

 

[vanram]

Hi Lancer,

those are the words used by savant. please check nifty intra day pivot point thread. during feb-march.

Infact he wanted to name the thread with the same words.

I am sorry if hurt you quoting his words.

But, personally speaking the quotes could have been phrased in a more palatable manner.

Wishes,

Lancer.

 

[lancer]

Hi Vanram,

I agree with Lancer. No one in this forum doubts for a second that the SMA crossover is an excellent and simple system that works very well on stocks and index futures.

We are, in the past few posts, evaluating whether we can apply this to intraday trading and now F&O. I firmly believe that knowledge comes with experimenting new stuff and learning as you go. One also runs a huge risk the day one feels that he needs to experiment / learn no more.

The biggest risk of applying this to F&O is the impact of whipsaw on account of the volatility. It is definitely a blessing if we find an indicator that would warn us in advance. Otherwise, we may end up making the broker happy by frequent reversals!!!

I rest my case by posting the past two day's 15 min chart with all indicators as per Savant's post some minutes back (self-explanatory). I guess, it is for Savant to decide if we will continue to track any new indicators in this thread.

Hi Scorpio,

I agree with you totally. For positional buy Or swing trading it is fine to rely upon Crossover and BB. But the big Q is how far it is safe for FNO or do we need some other indicators. The stakes are high. For example take a look at the lot size.

1. ISPATIND 24900
2. ALOKTEXT 22152
3. ARVIND 17200
4. ASHOKLEY 19100
5. DCB 14000
6. DISHTV 20600
7. GVKPIL 19000
8. IFCI 15760
9. JPHYDRO 12500
10.NAGARFERT 21000
11.NOIDATOLL 16400

The last named had trigger last week at 46 and made a high of 48.5 and it's S/L is pegged below 40. The CMP is 42.5. So how to go about it ?

Our purpose is how to integrate this system in FNO . Is it viable or not. Some more safty coushions are required to minimize the risk ? Try S/L they hit fast. Don't do that and have a stroke!

Or does it mean that the FNo segment is only for FII and DII, where the cream of profits lay ?

To the best my experience, if one lot is handled nimbly can get you a plus of 50 thousand per day, if you are comfortable with both short and long. A bit of whipsaw makes it a negetive trade with MTM trailing losses and you dont know where to stop.

Yes ! You do need a very big heart to go into it.

Now it is upto Savant whether to continue or put a stop to it or start a new thread for it.


Wishes,

Lancer.

 

[SavantGarde]

Guys,

I Love You All More Than You Will Love Yourself....

Firstly, We`Are All Friends Here, I Am Sure Any Misunderstanding Can Always Be Sorted Out In A Few Posts.....Which Is Quite Ok

Eventually, I Would Like The General Misconception & Wide Eye Look Of People To Disappear As If F&O Is A Casino & That One Can Loose Tons Of Money Trading The Segment.

In My Opinion Once You Perfect The Tools Of Trade, F&O Is Extremely Rewarding & There Is Nothing Except Forex That Can Reward You More Than You Dreamed of....Key Is Clear Mind, Lightning Fast Adaptability For Sticky Situations & Ofcourse Perfect Tool That One Knows As A Back Of Your Hand .....F&O Is Like Precision Engineering

Once You Have Everything In Place It Is Like A Pleasure Trip, No Longer A Tussle As Generally Regarded....Now That Is An Utopian Thought....

Just As With Any System It Goes Through Many Stages, No Strategy Or System Remains In Its Original Form Without Tweaks By Those Using It For Themselves To Either Suit Their Temperament Or Their Style Of Trading, Therefore Systems or Strategy Consists Of Many Individual Blocks & What It Is Assembled Into Is Upto A Trader....The Same Pieces Of Block Can Look As Different As Number Of Traders In Existence.

Happy & Safer Trading

SavantGarde

 

[vanram]

Hi Lancer/scorpio.

"does it mean that the FNo segment is only for FII and DII, where the cream of profits lay ?"


No. we can trade in any segment and in any stock, commodity or any tradeable thing. but, the key thing is Risk & Money Management. proper position sizing, which can be determined by my capital, my risk apetite and my stoploss.

say if I have Rs. 200K only and it is sufficient to take a position of 4 lots nifty future.

But, my risk apetite is 1% and initial stop is 25 points away.

and with my capital and risk profile I have to take

200,000 X 1% / 25= 80 units or 4 minifty lots or 1 Nifty. thats it. I should not go for 4 lots or without a stoploss.

would like to hear your views.