VKR's 4HL INTRADAY/SWING TRADE SETUP

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
#51
Please download the excel sheet which i have posted...just put Scrip Name, Date, high & low price in the colomn's provided and rest is formula which is based on your strategy (colomn E to J) Just copy and paste the cells. To get intraday data you have to signup with Investbulls.com which is providing intraday data for NSE scrips for free. I have to thank them really for their contribution.

Cheers,
Karthik
Karthik, to it seems it wont work. We have not accounted for the Gap up or gap down openings in the excel sheet. You need to incorporate a coloumn for "open" levels and incorporate the same. Actually if we could get the first 5 minutes high included in the excel sheet, that would make it more realistic.
Please go through my just previous post , the reasons for my view are detailed there!!!
I am be erring somewhere in fully understanding the strategy , please point it out so that I may suitably amend or 'delete' my posts!!
All the best!!
Regrads
-R K Karnani
 

veluri1967

Well-Known Member
#52
Backtesting Analysis of Swing Trade on DLF for the period from 01/1/2009 to 27/11/2009.

Taken Long Position
When the price pierced Highest High of last 4 days.
Squared Off long position when price touched Highest Low of last 4 days.

Taken Short Position
When the price pierced Lowest Low of last 4 days.
Squared Off Short Position when price touched Lowest High of last 4 days.

In case of Gap Up/Gap Down days
Open price is taken into consideration.

Total Trades Triggered = 46
Out of which 26 short trades and 20 Long Trades.
15 short trades resulted in loss
11 long trades resulted in loss.

Maximum profit booked in Long Trades =9430 (Exclusive of brokerage)
Maximum Loss booked in Long Trades =4060 (Exclusive of brokerage)
Minimum profit booked in Long Trades = 320
Minimum loss booked in Long Trades = 390

Maximum profit booked in Short Trade =6100 (Exclusive of brokerage)
Maximum loss booked in Short Trade = 3930 (Exclusive of brokerage)
Minimum profit booked in short trades = 1590
Minimum loss booked in short trades = 340

Largest Drawdown = 4060
Larget Profit = 9430


Tested on 100 shares.

Loss Trades resulted in a loss of Rs.32450
Profit Trades resulted in a profit of Rs.55175.

Net profit = 22725.

Average price taken to calculate brokerage = 300
Brokerage on 46 trades = 13800

Net Profit after brokerage = 8925
Net Profit after brokerage, slippage = 7000
Average capital employed = 15,000

Annualised return = 50%.

I welcome comments.
 
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bandlab2

Well-Known Member
#53
Backtesting Analysis of Swing Trade on DLF for the period from 01/1/2009 to 27/11/2009.

Taken Long Position
When the price pierced Highest High of last 4 days.
Squared Off long position when price touched Highest Low of last 4 days.

Taken Short Position
When the price pierced Lowest Low of last 4 days.
Squared Off Short Position when price touched Lowest High of last 4 days.

In case of Gap Up/Gap Down days
Open price is taken into consideration.

Total Trades Triggered = 46
Loss Trades = 26
Profit Trades = 20.

Tested on 100 shares.

Loss Trades resulted in a loss of Rs.32450
Profit Trades resulted in a profit of Rs.55175.

Net profit = 22725.

Average price taken to calculate brokerage = 300
Brokerage on 46 trades = 13800

Net Profit after brokerage = 8925
Net Profit after brokerage, slippage = 7000
Average capital employed = 15,000

Annualised return = 50%.

I welcome comments.

without going into the merits of the method, i would say 50% return is not exciting. just buy nifty on jan 1 2009 and sell on nov 27 2009, you would have almost doubled yr capital

we need to tweak the rules to make it more attractive
 

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
#54
Backtesting Analysis of Swing Trade on DLF for the period from 01/1/2009 to 27/11/2009.

Taken Long Position
When the price pierced Highest High of last 4 days.
Squared Off long position when price touched Highest Low of last 4 days.

Taken Short Position
When the price pierced Lowest Low of last 4 days.
Squared Off Short Position when price touched Lowest High of last 4 days.

In case of Gap Up/Gap Down days
Open price is taken into consideration.

Total Trades Triggered = 46
Out of which 26 short trades and 20 Long Trades.
15 short trades resulted in loss
11 long trades resulted in loss.

Maximum profit booked in Long Trades =9430 (Exclusive of brokerage)
Maximum Loss booked in Long Trades =4060 (Exclusive of brokerage)
Minimum profit booked in Long Trades = 320
Minimum loss booked in Long Trades = 390

Maximum profit booked in Short Trade =6100 (Exclusive of brokerage)
Maximum loss booked in Short Trade = 3930 (Exclusive of brokerage)
Minimum profit booked in short trades = 1590
Minimum loss booked in short trades = 340

Largest Drawdown = 4060
Larget Profit = 9430


Tested on 100 shares.

Loss Trades resulted in a loss of Rs.32450
Profit Trades resulted in a profit of Rs.55175.

Net profit = 22725.

Average price taken to calculate brokerage = 300
Brokerage on 46 trades = 13800

Net Profit after brokerage = 8925
Net Profit after brokerage, slippage = 7000
Average capital employed = 15,000

Annualised return = 50%.

I welcome comments.
What is the trade size considered?
What is the profit target?
Any SL considered, or we just wait for the lower level to trigger or exit at close?
 

karthik_sri

Well-Known Member
#56
Dear Karthik, It is indeed very nice to see your great effort in analysing this strategy. The effort is even more laudable as the strategy is someone else's.
I have a few pointers for you. I may be wrong but do take care while analysing and making excel sheet.
o1. Are you referring to just EOD levels to arrive at your profit and loss figures of a day?
02. Are you taking into account intraday movement?
03. Do you account for Gap up openings!!!
As i had mentioned earlier in the thread that I had used siimilar strategy hence these observations are per my own expirience.
The results shall indeed be good but I fear may not be as good as projected in your sheet. Just have a look back again at your analysis and put my fears to rest!!:D
Moreover we also must specify a SL , we cannot just take entry for a meagre 0.5% profit and allow the trade to hit 4 day low which may be several percentage points away!!!
You will notice that at times our long trade is triggered and before reaching our T1 of 0.5% retraces and goes down , the southward journey may be more than 1% , however from there it reverses and goes on to reach our T1!!! But Karthik, how can we be sure of its turn, if it would continue to keep going down, we have the risk of loosing a few days accumulated profit in a single trade.

I will request you to have a look at these sample trades I am pointing out and see that the result would be a bit different than what is projected in our Excel Sheet.

On 4th May you have taken a Long position at 3519.70 (the previous 4 days high), and you show that price to have moved up by a whooping 4.27% but Karthik if you see the chart you will notice that the market opened on 4th May at 4621, almost a 100 points gap!! Ideal in such situation is to follow a rule : We go long above previous 4 Days high or present days opening high, which ever is higher!!! (Reverse would be true for short). On this basis the high of opening 5 minutes bar was 4631 , we would go long above this level, and as the high of the day was 4669 thus giving you your T1. But there is a small catch here. The Long was triggered above the days high of 3631 at 10.05 with high at 3636. The market from there came down to 3605 before moving up. We were in almost 1% loss before we reached our target.

Now look at 5th May, the 4 days HH was 3669.90, market opened at 3650, so we went long above 3669.90. Our T1 would be 3669.90+0.5%=3688.25
Now the market moved up to 3685 only , just missing our T1 by 3 points and comes down to 3623, almost 1.25% below our entry level and then at 2.30 goes on to make a high of 3693.60 to give us T1!!
Do have a look at your figures for May18th and 19th, both were gap days. You are showing a max Gain% of 18+ and 4+ where as in fact these trades would not even trigger for the 0.5% gain we have included in our calculation.

Just have a look at your Loss figures!!! Arent they much bigger than our 0.5% T1!!

This not to discourage or ridicule the theory, but for applying more thought to the short coming it has to make it more Robust!! I am sure this should work well with proper RR, maoney and SL management!!!

All the best.

Regards.
-R K Karnani
Dear RKK,
Thanks for your valuable suggestion and analysing the spread sheet which i have shared. The % gain is arrived based on EOD Data only. If you refer to my earlier post and in last line i have mentioned that i have not tested the entry time as the data or test period taken is more (164 days). As you said there could be gap ups and gap downs and in those cases we may miss the oppertunity!:eek: Yes we have to fine tune some method for SL:confused:. Let me analyse the entry time for all the trades that were trigerred then only we may come to a conclusion.

Cheers,
Karthik
 

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
#57
Dear RKK,
Thanks for your valuable suggestion and analysing the spread sheet which i have shared. The % gain is arrived based on EOD Data only. If you refer to my earlier post and in last line i have mentioned that i have not tested the entry time as the data or test period taken is more (164 days). As you said there could be gap ups and gap downs and in those cases we may miss the oppertunity!:eek: Yes we have to fine tune some method for SL:confused:. Let me analyse the entry time for all the trades that were trigerred then only we may come to a conclusion.

Cheers,
Karthik
Yes, Karthik, I understood that you are taking the percentage gain is on EOD basis. Our profit data would be skewed too as you would note that there were no trades possible on 18th and 19th whereas our Excel shows profit of 0.5% on these days!!
Best way to analyse it is to plot the previous 4 days HH and LL on intraday charts and then have a look at the entries exits etc. Its by this method only that we would be able to reach some view about appropriate SL to be applied!!!
If you have a chart where the HH and LL of previous 4 days is marked, you will be able to understand in a glance where the trade triggered, and whether or not the target was reached, after trigger how much adversely the trade went before going our way.......
Just my $0.02
 

veluri1967

Well-Known Member
#58
As committed I have been working on Swing Trade Setup. Here is the Nifty backtesting analysis on Swing Trade.

Period under consideration - 01/1/2008 to 31/7/2009.
Reason - Covered Bull, Bear and Sideways trends.

Total trades triggered - 83
Loss Trades - 37

Selected 1 lot of Nifty

Total points made = 4371
(Not considered slippage)

Net points after slippage, brokerage = 3000
On conservative basis.

Net profit on 1 lot of nifty = 1,50,000

Average Capital employed = 20,000

Annualised rate of return = 473%
Revised Strategy for Swing Trades

Go Long
Highest High of last 4 days.
Square off positions Highest Low of last 4 days.
Donot take fresh position on the day of square off.

Go Short
Lowest Low of last 4 days.
Square off positions Lowest High of last 4 days.
Donot take fresh positions on the day of square off.


Check it out friends.... the strategy is working very well on Nifty.
 

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
#59
Revised Strategy for Swing Trades

Go Long
Highest High of last 4 days.
Square off positions Highest Low of last 4 days.
Donot take fresh position on the day of square off.

Go Short
Lowest Low of last 4 days.
Square off positions Lowest High of last 4 days.
Donot take fresh positions on the day of square off.


Check it out friends.... the strategy is working very well on Nifty.
Seems you have checked the results with some System tester!!! Great result indeed!!
Do elaborate on drawdowns...biggest loosing trade, biggest winning trade, losses in a row, wins in a row!!!
In case you have done bar by bar testing then the result is simply out of this world!!!! :thumb:
All the best!!!
 

veluri1967

Well-Known Member
#60
Seems you have checked the results with some System tester!!! Great result indeed!!
Do elaborate on drawdowns...biggest loosing trade, biggest winning trade, losses in a row, wins in a row!!!
In case you have done bar by bar testing then the result is simply out of this world!!!! :thumb:
All the best!!!
Hi...rkkarnani,

Ureka...I have found someone to share my ureka....
I have tested it bar by bar.
Maximum of 3 loosing trades in a row.
Maximum of 10 winning trades in a row.
Biggest loosing trade - 138 points
Biggest winning trade - 909 points
Maximum loss in a row 3 loosing trades - 236 points

I donot know....how to calculate drawdowns.
But one thing I have noted is it all started with 2 consecutive losses of 69 and 82 points. I have made a cumulative total of points made. For first 2 initial trades there was a negative balance of 151 points ie 7550.(Add brokerage and slippage to this figure). Thereafter, it never went into negative balance.

Thanks...rkk...for sharing my joy of ureka..
 
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