Zerodha - Number One Discount Broker in India

Zerodha

Well-Known Member
Zerodha has requested me to withdraw/reverse my comments from this website.They offered me 100 free trades. I have rejected their offer. This clearly shows "What Zerodha is? I have lost complete faith on this broker.
Ravi,

I guess we had tried to reason out on why we squared off your position at 2.50 and not 3.20pm. You had written deep in the money call option and you were using the premium received to write even more.

Since the market was going up fast, our RMS team had to square off a small position and the rest of it was squared off by you by 3.20pm I guess. The reason I guess you were pissed was because our RMS policy document didn't mention that we can square your position anytime during the day.

The email which was sent it to him was explaining that the RMS policy now includes the statement that positions can be squared off any time during the day if there is no sufficient margin and we won't wait till 3.20pm for that .

I guess we were being courteous and hence the following email was sent,



"Firstly let me apologize for the inconvenience caused to you due the the lack of clarity in our margin policies,

You will find our margin policy document in the link provided here.

Two clarifications,
a) We will be unable to give premium benefit received from writing options
b) Positions can be squared off at any time whilst there is insufficient margin in the account

In lieu of the discomfort caused to you by the lack of clarity in our RMS document we would like to extend the next 100 of your trades at Zerodha brokerage free.

This definitely does not make up for the issues that have occurred already but henceforth we hope our revised policy document will give you elevated clarity on our margin policies.

I would also like to humbly request you to refrain or reverse the comments on blogs and Social media.

We are a company started by traders at prices that facilitate other traders to function, we do 0 marketing and the only way we hope to grow is through word of mouth ......"

@everyone,
Don't want to get into specifics of how much position, but by writing deep in the money options there was a huge position taken on short calls and nifty was bouncing more than 4% and hence we had cut just a small portion..Ravi himself cut the rest in 10 mins after we did.

Phew!!!I don't know how many brokers would have taken this much effort for squaring a small portion of the position the client held because of lack of adequate margin.

@Ravi, Let us know if you want to talk about it, writing deep in the money options with a higher leverage, pocketing the premium and writing more, is something that an RMS team of any brokerage business can't let happen, you will be taking unlimited risk on behalf of the brokerage.
I know you have traded across the world, but the way option writing margins are blocked in India by exchanges differs from how it is blocked in the US.
 
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Zerodha

Well-Known Member
OMG :annoyed:
:annoyed::annoyed:
Well now i can understand how come margin is different in terminal and file.
lol:
They need a id to tell that why margin is different as if there is different margin for different clients logging in.If the terminal is same then common things should be same and this person was saying that he cannot tell me the reason without my id .
Ravi bhai thanks for opening my eyes in time.:thumb:
Hey TTL,

These are 2 different issues, I still can't figure out how it is blocking lesser margin for you in BO, ideally shouldn't. So it will help if I see your client id.

Cheers,
 

Zerodha

Well-Known Member
hi,
The figures have got changed over the last couple of hrs and are reflecting logical values now. it sure is very strange. i intend to reconfirm them tommorrow before getting relieved. i surely did not receive the margin report on the day of my trade. i had checked the spam folder as well. this forum is surely a very helpful medium to thrash out the niggling issues. chalking my experience to teething troubles.

But.. margins required for option writing, not considering the premiums towards margin requirements.. are some of the grey areas for me. I am sure you must be having your own reasons . still..... i guess i will have to double the safety net to be able to relax on the positions taken.
regards
We are good with you using the option writing premium, what is the issue is to use the loophole that exists in the system.

Assuming you write a 5000 call at 800 using MIS. YOu will receive 40,000 as premium but only around 20,000 is blocked. You will use this 40000 to write more options. This way you can run an unlimited position with just 20,000 in your account.. Usually when such things are done, we know that the trader is looking at taking a ride by putting the broker at risk. Most of us at Zerodha are traders and we can spot these very easily..
 

Zerodha

Well-Known Member
Today I could not place orders in NSE in preopen session . What was the problem ?
What is meant by close out (from broker side) ? Is it releted to short of margin to exchange from zerodha ?
It was a problem bunch of brokers faced today in NSE preopen session, waiting for clarity from exchange yet..
 

shekharinvest

Well-Known Member
Ravi,

I guess we had tried to reason out on why we squared off your position at 2.50 and not 3.20pm. You had written deep in the money call option and you were using the premium received to write even more.

Since the market was going up fast, our RMS team had to square off a small position and the rest of it was squared off by you by 3.20pm I guess. The reason I guess you were pissed was because our RMS policy document didn't mention that we can square your position anytime during the day.

The email which was sent it to him was explaining that the RMS policy now includes the statement that positions can be squared off any time during the day if there is no sufficient margin and we won't wait till 3.20pm for that .

I guess we were being courteous and hence the following email was sent,



"Firstly let me apologize for the inconvenience caused to you due the the lack of clarity in our margin policies,

You will find our margin policy document in the link provided forthwith,

https://www.zerodha.com/download/Policies/ZerodhaPolicies&Procedures.pdf

Two clarifications,
a) We will be unable to give premium benefit received from writing options
b) Positions can be squared off at any time whilst there is insufficient margin in the account

In lieu of the discomfort caused to you by the lack of clarity in our RMS document we would like to extend the next 100 of your trades at Zerodha brokerage free.

This definitely does not make up for the issues that have occurred already but henceforth we hope our revised policy document will give you elevated clarity on our margin policies.

I would also like to humbly request you to refrain or reverse the comments on blogs and Social media.

We are a company started by traders at prices that facilitate other traders to function, we do 0 marketing and the only way we hope to grow is through word of mouth ......"

@everyone,
Don't want to get into specifics of how much position, but by writing deep in the money options there was a huge position taken on short calls and nifty was bouncing more than 4% and hence we had cut just a small portion..Ravi himself cut the rest in 10 mins after we did.

Phew!!!I don't know how many brokers would have take this much effort for squaring a small portion of the position the client held because of lack of adequate margin.

@Ravi, Let us know if you want to talk about it, writing deep in the money options with a higher leverage, pocketing the premium and writing more, is something that an RMS team of any brokerage business can't let happen, you will be taking unlimited risk on behalf of the brokerage.
I know you have traded across the world, but the way option writing margins are blocked in India by exchanges differs from how it is blocked in the US.

Nicely explained !
 

Zerodha

Well-Known Member
Hi zerodha,

Im using nest trader 3.10.57.97.7 version.

whenever i opened snap quote window of any script. thats script prices are not updating. only prices updating after closing snapquote.

and this problem occuring not regularily.. daily 1 or 2 times. after relogin its working fine.

Plz check this issue and show me solution. everytime logout and login is not possible.

im using windows 7 OS.
Can u send an email to [email protected] , he can take you on remote and check this out..
 

shekharinvest

Well-Known Member
We are good with you using the option writing premium, what is the issue is to use the loophole that exists in the system.

Assuming you write a 5000 call at 800 using MIS. YOu will receive 40,000 as premium but only around 20,000 is blocked. You will use this 40000 to write more options. This way you can run an unlimited position with just 20,000 in your account.. Usually when such things are done, we know that the trader is looking at taking a ride by putting the broker at risk. Most of us at Zerodha are traders and we can spot these very easily..

Great Idea.

One can create a PONZI scheme here. By the time some one catches the Madof he can pocket the billions :D
 

Zerodha

Well-Known Member
Zerodha,

If I create a Spread say BUY an ITM put and SELL an OTM put where loss is limited, margin required to open trade is about 16000 (with margin benefit) and have no meaningful surplus money in account - all of a sudden market moves, as you say by 4% and as I have written an option will you liquidate my position although my loss is limited.


Do you take a holistic view regarding net profit / loss of an account taking into consideration all open positions /trades in an account?
Is your system automated or you take individual view for each account?
How do you manage so many accounts ? You need to be pretty fast to take a decision.

Closing positions without warning is what disturbs me.
Shekar,

We are traders and know exactly what can cause us a loss and what can't. This is not something that we would square off, because we know the losses are limited.
 

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