Zerodha Part 2

[murthyavr]

@Sumit,

This thread is for us to help client queries and you are just crowding this place up with your rant. As I mentioned earlier, how much we charge is our business and you wanting to use our service or not is your decision. I was just checking for your emails and very surprisingly you haven't sent any email asking us about any of these questions over the last few days from when you are repeatedly just commenting here. If you are unhappy with us, I guess you should move to the other brokers you have mentioned, I suppose you would appreciate that you/me are spending time posting/answering on the same topic.

@mayank, brother, you are a special trader who gets a special deal from your broker and you'd probably appreciate that not everyone can pay Rs 50,000 as a fixed brokerage per month. We as Zerodha cannot match the deal you are getting with your broker, I have stopped pitching you to become our client a long time back, so I don't see any point in us discussing about our charges. Because you are using algo's from your broker, I might ask you a few details about that and I'd be happy to get your feedback and do let me know if you don't want me to.

@everyone else, As I have mentioned earlier, our focus today is technology to give you an edge. Every client of ours knows how much we charge before taking a trade and you'd all appreciate that we were the first brokers to do so, by our brokerage calculator or charge list. If you think our charges are higher and makes a material difference to your trading, it is freewill and you have every right to choose a broker of your choice. But before you take that decision do understand, NOW as a trading platform gave us a very good start, but moving to our own trading platform was very crucial. With our own platform, we will over the next year offer tools which will delight you. Giving the technology edge without increasing the costs for you is our challenge now..

It is surprising to see the change in the tone of Zerodha, encouraged by the
success in the initial years.

Well, it is your change and you are free to change. We just can't ask why.

But remember two things:

1. This owner of this thread is Traderji, a public forum. Any member can post
what he feels here - whether it is relevant or not will be decided by the
administrators.

2. This thread was not even started by you. And if you think that "..This thread
is for us to help client queries", you are again wrong.

 

[soft_trader]

It is surprising to see the change in the tone of Zerodha, encouraged by the
success in the initial years.

Rightly said.... The tone is indeed changing.

 

[timepass]

Give them a break, the guy is on a vacation

 

[megapixel]

Rightly said.... The tone is indeed changing.

I guess Sachin is not posting.

someone else from his office posting who is not associated with the forum much .

 

[timepass]

Now for example RSKV charges Rs. 230/crore..and NSE has circulars that the transaction charges should be Rs. 190/crore...so RSKV charges only Rs. 40/crore as clearing charges which is discretionary..

Similarly Smarttradeonline charges Rs. 50/crore as clearing charges which is again Discretionary...

Ditto with Bezel the discretion they exercise is Rs. 60/crore..

And look at the discretion which Zerodha uses..its Discretion is 200/crore....so even going by the average discretion being used by different Discount Broking firms is on an average Rs. 40-Rs.60/crore

Yet another discount broker that we know of on TJ is Acheiivers' Equities, and they are charging Rs. 200 per crore. BTW, Zerodha is charging Rs. 300/- per crore.

Now compare it with Zerodha...on an average they are charging 5 times what these other Discount Broking firms charge..so this becomes a fit case to be referred to even Competition Commission of India...and they have right to impose a penalty for someone who uses his position in a wrong way..

My case is further substantiated by the fact that Zerodha most probably does the highest volumes ..mau be its volumes are to the tune of all these Broking Firms put together...

Si it becomes another case of misusing one's dominant position in the market..

Now Do you know why this person has suggested that people having problems can switch to other Brokers...I will tell you why..

Through these discretionary charges they are profiting to the tune of more than 10 crores...This is my assumption ..so Zerodha will definitely not mind a few people who raise this question to stop trading with them...

I can give further example to elaborate this 10 crore hypothesis...and I reckon this is a scam...In their quest to defend themselves they have told that I should not rant...so I will stop ranting after this post..at the same time let me elaborate how I am going to please this person who has labelled me as a ranter after I raised some inconvenient questions.

And now there is heavy advertising for another discount broker called Actionfin who is charging 1 paisa per trade. I don't know what are their clearing charges. Then there is BMA wealth creators... There may be many other discount brokers that we don't know about.

My point is, just as the brokers can exercise their discretion for brokerage charges (within the upper limit of 2.5%), they can equally well exercise in the matter of other charges which are discretionary (but may not have an upper limit).

If you are going to the trouble of unearthing the agreement between IL&FS and Zerodha, you may first want to find out

a) whether a broker can charge any additional amount over and above the charges levied by his clearing member, and charge it under the category of "Clearing charges" or "Transaction charges", and

b) whether SEBI has any prescribed upper limit for such charges.

As to going to CCI, I don't think that officially there is any category/ classification called "Discount" broker, so Zerodha can site the example of many other brokers who may be charging much more than Rs. 300/crore as clearing charges.

Also, this topic is just getting warm, so don't go silent about it. Let's continue this discussion.

 

[timepass]

http://www.sebi.gov.in/bylaws/ch13.pdf

Browsed through the file. I am not good with all that legalese, but this chapter is about Compliance and the records etc. to be maintained by the client, brokers and sub-brokers.

Which particular clause are you referring to and in which context ?

 

[hayerpa]

It is surprising to see the change in the tone of Zerodha, encouraged by the
success in the initial years.

Well, it is your change and you are free to change. We just can't ask why.

But remember two things:

1. This owner of this thread is Traderji, a public forum. Any member can post
what he feels here - whether it is relevant or not will be decided by the
administrators.

2. This thread was not even started by you. And if you think that "..This thread
is for us to help client queries", you are again wrong.

nailed

good to go murthy

 

[hayerpa]

Let me elaborate how I am to contest these discretionary charges..so Zerodha get prepared to defend yourself...I am writing in a public domain...

I will take for example the transaction charges charged by Zerodha in the futures segment for the purpose of illustration :

As Zerodha representative has written that the clearing charges are Discretionary and the conclusion anyone can rightly draw from it is that
it ought not be questioned...

Now for example RSKV charges Rs. 230/crore..and NSE has circulars that the transaction charges should be Rs. 190/crore...so RSKV charges only Rs. 40/crore as clearing charges which is discretionary..

Similarly Smarttradeonline charges Rs. 50/crore as clearing charges which is again Discretionary...

Ditto with Bezel the discretion they exercise is Rs. 60/crore..

And look at the discretion which Zerodha uses..its Discretion is 200/crore....so even going by the average discretion being used by different Discount Broking firms is on an average Rs. 40-Rs.60/crore

Now compare it with Zerodha...on an average they are charging 5 times what these other Discount Broking firms charge..so this becomes a fit case to be referred to even Competition Commission of India...and they have right to impose a penalty for someone who uses his position in a wrong way..

My case is further substantiated by the fact that Zerodha most probably does the highest volumes ..mau be its volumes are to the tune of all these Broking Firms put together...

Si it becomes another case of misusing one's dominant position in the market..

Now Do you know why this person has suggested that people having problems can switch to other Brokers...I will tell you why..

Through these discretionary charges they are profiting to the tune of more than 10 crores...This is my assumption ..so Zerodha will definitely not mind a few people who raise this question to stop trading with them...

I can give further example to elaborate this 10 crore hypothesis...and I reckon this is a scam...In their quest to defend themselves they have told that I should not rant...so I will stop ranting after this post..at the same time let me elaborate how I am going to please this person who has labelled me as a ranter after I raised some inconvenient questions

Step No.1: Get the CM-TM agreement from SEBI of Zerodha and IL&FS through RTI Act 2005...so I will get to know how much Zerodha pays to IL&FS as clearing charges

Step no.2: on the basis of this calculate how much extra they have been charging in the guise of clearing charges which is their discretion

Strep no.3: The Extra Bucks which Zerodha has earned because of extra Transaction charges is revenue for them..try to find out how much taxes they have paid...if they have paid taxes only on Brokerage showing it as the only form of revenue they are definitely in for trouble..as the Govt. has every right to impose taxes on this discretionary clearing charges which has been conclusively proven to be a revenue stream rather than some fixed charges

Step no.4: Inform SEBI and Nse and MCA regarding this...

and REST will be history...as Zerodha is not alone..there would be other broking firms and all of them will be affected no doubt...

SEBI will have to come out with a circular clearly spelling what is the discretion allowed to these firms

And all of you will thank me along with the entire Trading community for this effort...I have given enough hints as to how I will proceed..so that Zerodha is given enough time to defend the indefensible...and If and only if whatever Zerodha has earned by charging extra clearing charges or what they call it as their discretion...thry will be charged penalty for conciling this important piece of information...which should have gone to the Indian Govt.


By the tone and tenure of Zerodha Representative I could get it that they are more interested in me changing my broker...but I will do this along with whatever I have written....

NJOY TIMEPASS...:thumb:

hey sumit u re totally rocking man u are whopping there asses very badly :clap: i'm curiously waiting for sachin from zerodha to respond as i can see he is the only person who has knowledge abt zerodha functioning more .

and further u dont have to listen to some other person that ure ranting if were wrong then we would have said that ure creating nuisance in this thread but as we all can see no one from zerodha had answer so ure right and as a client of zerodha we all need to know wats goin on actually

 

[megapixel]

Zerodha / Fellow traders

I find this screen during Commodity order placement In Zerodha web version

Can anyone please tell what is "Cal" ? I'm scared to click and check this button

What this button does ?

 

[hayerpa]

Zerodha / Fellow traders

I find this screen during Commodity order placement In Zerodha web version

Can anyone please tell what is "Cal" ? I'm scared to click and check this button

What this button does ?

upload ure image again cant see