Zerodha Part 2
- Thread starter Traderji
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phew!!!
No one in the office wanted to answer traderji and they were all waiting for me to get back from my long weekend holiday..
...
A lot of action has happened in the meanwhile..
Firstly about the challenge, Guys we need to go by what is the performance of the trading account, there is no way for us to know who is keeping money where. But before we profile a guy on the blog, you can be rest assured that we will put up only those guys who have been consistently profitable during 60 trading days and not lucky few trades..
Secondly, about active or not, don't worry about it guys, we have put that condition only to make sure the next times someone is trying to manipulate we have a condition which says why we can't have him as a winner or not. There is no minimum number of trades, you trade once in 60 days your Rs 20 + Rs 20 will be refunded with no questions asked.
No one in the office wanted to answer traderji and they were all waiting for me to get back from my long weekend holiday..
...A lot of action has happened in the meanwhile..
Firstly about the challenge, Guys we need to go by what is the performance of the trading account, there is no way for us to know who is keeping money where. But before we profile a guy on the blog, you can be rest assured that we will put up only those guys who have been consistently profitable during 60 trading days and not lucky few trades..
Secondly, about active or not, don't worry about it guys, we have put that condition only to make sure the next times someone is trying to manipulate we have a condition which says why we can't have him as a winner or not. There is no minimum number of trades, you trade once in 60 days your Rs 20 + Rs 20 will be refunded with no questions asked.
Vik, answers to your questions:
Which particular NISM exam needs to be passed and certification produced?
Series 8 exams: http://www.nism.ac.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=375&Itemid=299
What are the requirements to become an "authorized" person, what is the 5000 (is it per month or per annum {its not a concern, just curiousity}?
Rs5000 as one time registration charge per exchange, NSE is the only place where it makes sense to automate your trades, everywhere else there is no liquidity.
Will I be able to open a PAMM style acct in this fashion to trade three different accts at the same time?
At Zerodha we don't let people trade on behalf of someone else, unless he holds a PMS license. You can add your immediate family accounts though, father, mother, son, daughter etc..
Is there anything else required besides 5000/month needed for i3 subscription?
5000/month for i3 + Rs 250/exchange/segment as dealer terminal rentals( Rs 750, if you are looking at only NSE)
Are their any minimum capital accts to get a dealer terminal. If so what are they?
No minimum capital required.
On the data and software ...... for now i plan on using the amibroker plugin and gdfl data.
So let me get this straight,
a) when i place an order to buy nifty at 6010 on the chart, will the offer at that second on the ZT be 6010? i.e. are the two data sets (GDFL and ZT) in harmony?
(this should be moot, as it is a regulated exchange not frickin FX)
The data sets won't be in harmony, GDFL would probably have a small delay(in ms) compared to ZT. If you are looking at HFT, this would not really make sense, you would need to be on the NSE collo.
b) When the NSE disseminates tick by tick data. Are all the same price ticks bundled together or the same price ticks sent as one tick.
This could be the difference between a 70 tick bar being yay long or nay long of u feel me. In other words does GDFL or/and ZT use the TCP or UDP protocol? What does the NSE use? are they the same?
ZT uses TCP protocol, donno about GDFL. NSE uses TCP and my guess is GDFL is also the same.
Again, Vik, if you are looking at strategies where tick by tick data is very important, you will need to go collo, the data that reaches the trading platform/amibroker via internet won't really capture all the ticks.
c) Sorry for this question, i i think i know the answer, but just to make sure, is Zerodha ever a counterparty to our order? (u mentioned DD).
Never
d) IF we have a retail terminal, can we manually revise the SL (ie trailing)
Yes
e) Can we manually put in the TP or SL targets seperately, then is the order OCO when either executes or do we have to manually remove the other. In case of multiple entries, is it FIFO or LIFO.
Yes you can manually put TP and SL, but it will not be OCO. You will have to manually cancel when the other gets executed.
f) I have patiently read 1300 pages of ur guys progress in the last two weeks, i was hazy on the above, also i started following u last August, and was surprised to see the breakeven on 10 lots drop to 1.37 points from around .74 pts a few mopnths earlier (in the past 6months or so), i cant see it but did u reduce something? Is 1.28 the cutoff? This is in addition to the spread. What is the avg spread for the nifty on ZT btw, for say the last month (if possible)?
STT has reduced by almost 50%, reason for reduction of breakeven points. Brokerage in India can offer the spread which is on the exchange, there is nothing fancy that happens in between like in the other markets
Usually the far month is most illiquid and present month is the most liquid. Present month you should be able to execute 50 to 100 lots with no more than a 1 point impact. This might go up during the illiquid times of the day.
@vik, thanks for going through all the posts, must have taken you a long time ..
India is still not the place where you can let an algo run completely automated because of the liquidity issues. I'd suggest, keep it semi automated, see how it goes and let us know when you want to completely automate it..
Which particular NISM exam needs to be passed and certification produced?
Series 8 exams: http://www.nism.ac.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=375&Itemid=299
What are the requirements to become an "authorized" person, what is the 5000 (is it per month or per annum {its not a concern, just curiousity}?
Rs5000 as one time registration charge per exchange, NSE is the only place where it makes sense to automate your trades, everywhere else there is no liquidity.
Will I be able to open a PAMM style acct in this fashion to trade three different accts at the same time?
At Zerodha we don't let people trade on behalf of someone else, unless he holds a PMS license. You can add your immediate family accounts though, father, mother, son, daughter etc..
Is there anything else required besides 5000/month needed for i3 subscription?
5000/month for i3 + Rs 250/exchange/segment as dealer terminal rentals( Rs 750, if you are looking at only NSE)
Are their any minimum capital accts to get a dealer terminal. If so what are they?
No minimum capital required.
On the data and software ...... for now i plan on using the amibroker plugin and gdfl data.
So let me get this straight,
a) when i place an order to buy nifty at 6010 on the chart, will the offer at that second on the ZT be 6010? i.e. are the two data sets (GDFL and ZT) in harmony?
(this should be moot, as it is a regulated exchange not frickin FX)
The data sets won't be in harmony, GDFL would probably have a small delay(in ms) compared to ZT. If you are looking at HFT, this would not really make sense, you would need to be on the NSE collo.
b) When the NSE disseminates tick by tick data. Are all the same price ticks bundled together or the same price ticks sent as one tick.
This could be the difference between a 70 tick bar being yay long or nay long of u feel me. In other words does GDFL or/and ZT use the TCP or UDP protocol? What does the NSE use? are they the same?
ZT uses TCP protocol, donno about GDFL. NSE uses TCP and my guess is GDFL is also the same.
Again, Vik, if you are looking at strategies where tick by tick data is very important, you will need to go collo, the data that reaches the trading platform/amibroker via internet won't really capture all the ticks.
c) Sorry for this question, i i think i know the answer, but just to make sure, is Zerodha ever a counterparty to our order? (u mentioned DD).
Never
d) IF we have a retail terminal, can we manually revise the SL (ie trailing)
Yes
e) Can we manually put in the TP or SL targets seperately, then is the order OCO when either executes or do we have to manually remove the other. In case of multiple entries, is it FIFO or LIFO.
Yes you can manually put TP and SL, but it will not be OCO. You will have to manually cancel when the other gets executed.
f) I have patiently read 1300 pages of ur guys progress in the last two weeks, i was hazy on the above, also i started following u last August, and was surprised to see the breakeven on 10 lots drop to 1.37 points from around .74 pts a few mopnths earlier (in the past 6months or so), i cant see it but did u reduce something? Is 1.28 the cutoff? This is in addition to the spread. What is the avg spread for the nifty on ZT btw, for say the last month (if possible)?
STT has reduced by almost 50%, reason for reduction of breakeven points. Brokerage in India can offer the spread which is on the exchange, there is nothing fancy that happens in between like in the other markets
Usually the far month is most illiquid and present month is the most liquid. Present month you should be able to execute 50 to 100 lots with no more than a 1 point impact. This might go up during the illiquid times of the day.
@vik, thanks for going through all the posts, must have taken you a long time
.. India is still not the place where you can let an algo run completely automated because of the liquidity issues. I'd suggest, keep it semi automated, see how it goes and let us know when you want to completely automate it..
@Vik,
Smart donno about it, had to read fooled by randomness twice before I could figure out what he was trying to say and have read black swan thrice and still trying to figure out what he is saying..
about the algo goof up, I dont remember which post, but it is possible..
About what a hedge fund manager looks for, different guys look for different things, but there is no point of putting all of that on this forum, because I don't think there is any hedge fund manager looking at hiring traders on this forum.
About bet sizing, there are different ways to look at the same thing. What I said all trades can't be the same size, but it could also be looked at indirectly as me saying that there could be people running multiple systems at the same time. Size keeps going up as and when more conditions keep hitting.
A simple example could be, on an EMA crossover u take 1 lot, then you have ur RSI condition matching, you add another and so on and forth.
The biggest problem with the business is overtrading and to be very honest brokers like us might have added to the problem. If there is 1lk allocated for trading, people keeping going in 1lk with max leverage without a system on every trade not knowing that this is the worst thing you can do - a suicide.
What adds is that people feel, because the brokerage is so low as with us or because they have paid a fixed fee for a month with another brokerage, they can trade 30 trades everyday and keep being right at max leverage.
It hurts and we are trying to do our best to slow people down, leverage and low costs are an edge, it is like driving a ferrari, if you don't know how to use, you might end up crashing very fast.
@vik, let me know if there is anything interesting that you would want to share, you look like someone who has traded a bit.
Smart donno about it, had to read fooled by randomness twice before I could figure out what he was trying to say and have read black swan thrice and still trying to figure out what he is saying..
about the algo goof up, I dont remember which post, but it is possible..
About what a hedge fund manager looks for, different guys look for different things, but there is no point of putting all of that on this forum, because I don't think there is any hedge fund manager looking at hiring traders on this forum.
About bet sizing, there are different ways to look at the same thing. What I said all trades can't be the same size, but it could also be looked at indirectly as me saying that there could be people running multiple systems at the same time. Size keeps going up as and when more conditions keep hitting.
A simple example could be, on an EMA crossover u take 1 lot, then you have ur RSI condition matching, you add another and so on and forth.
The biggest problem with the business is overtrading and to be very honest brokers like us might have added to the problem. If there is 1lk allocated for trading, people keeping going in 1lk with max leverage without a system on every trade not knowing that this is the worst thing you can do - a suicide.
What adds is that people feel, because the brokerage is so low as with us or because they have paid a fixed fee for a month with another brokerage, they can trade 30 trades everyday and keep being right at max leverage.
It hurts and we are trying to do our best to slow people down, leverage and low costs are an edge, it is like driving a ferrari, if you don't know how to use, you might end up crashing very fast.
@vik, let me know if there is anything interesting that you would want to share, you look like someone who has traded a bit.
Got nice colourful certificates for both my accounts in Zerodha for a winner in Zerodha 60 days challenge , signed by Mr Nithin Kamath.
Nice feeling ..... Thanks for the same, Zerodha.
Smart_trade
Nice feeling .....
Thanks for the same, Zerodha.Smart_trade
sir,
pls tell of your trading method, or strategy
how many trades you doing per day
pls tell sirji, zerodha blog or here.
thanks :clapping:
Got nice colourful certificates for both my accounts in Zerodha for a winner in Zerodha 60 days challenge , signed by Mr Nithin Kamath.
Nice feeling ..... Thanks for the same, Zerodha.
Smart_trade
Nice feeling .....
Thanks for the same, Zerodha.Smart_trade
I have read a lot of what your write and you make a lot of sense. I am sure a lot of people would want to know the man behind smart_trade, it will be an absolute pleasure to profile you and I am sure will be of great benefit for everyone else.
We could keep it pseudo if required, what say everyone??
If it is Ninjatrade/Meta Trader there will be 1000s of new client. Don't know about Multicharts. But are sure about Zerodha is divorcing Nest?
.. We have just started off, will probably take a bit before we have something out there...take a bit is a long bit I guess..
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