Day Trading Stocks & Futures

[TracerBullet]

Basically one is gonna need decent capital to trade in markets. Since they could not put networth restriction bec that would have killed all discount brokers, they are doing everything to close all other paths.

Assuming Futures is also affected, I can have decent capital/networth and still be affected as the risk i am allowed to take gets reduced significantly. Its maybe tolerable if trading 1 or 2 scrips only. But if i have to take say 20-25 trades on some days (and more open orders that dont trigger), then there is issue

its probably matter of case study that how many MIS traders actually make money? how many r wiped out? Ppl who r generally successful are voicing their opinion.. ppl who r wiped out they r nt there to tell their side of the story .... some leverage makes sense but overleverage hurts mkt ... it increases risk of small brokers going bankrupt on black swan events ... so for the health of the industry more than 3-5X should not be there

And how many businesses are successful ?How many investors are successful ? If someone takes irresponsible risk, he pays for it but what happens is because of them others also pay. Brokers running away with money is not so infrequent, and now you force me to give them full capital.

 

[travi]

Assuming Futures is also affected, I can have decent capital/networth and still be affected as the risk i am allowed to take gets reduced significantly. Its maybe tolerable if trading 1 or 2 scrips only. But if i have to take say 20-25 trades on some days (and more open orders that dont trigger), then there is issue



And how many businesses are successful ?How many investors are successful ? If someone takes irresponsible risk, he pays for it but what happens is because of them others also pay. Brokers running away with money is not so infrequent, and now you force me to give them full capital.

yes, rightly said. very important when you have open orders that are not triggered. makes a huge difference.

sometimes i have BO strategy, so two orders for same scrip, upside and downside.

In many i still dont trade Futures, use risk-based EQ qty. For Intra Cash mkt, it is now VAR+ELM, which is roughly 12.5% and that means max leverage of 8X. ( still not that bad but earlier we used to get 30X or more )

Atleast at Z, in the blog they put out, for Fut, one needs NRML margin for intraday. Surely this is a hit to many.
You will need a lot more idle funds lying around in account. You cant even pledge everything, you need 50% in cash for margins.

Local broker still not sure, till now he gave 7L margin with T+7 which they considered moving to T+2. here, mathematics entirely different but was good for swing/pos and reasonable though a bit higher brokerage.

 

[pav]

Will impact traders with smaller capital...
https://zerodha.com/z-connect/zerod...a/intraday-leverages-reduced-across-the-board

Sir I want to know that Will it affect intraday trading in Cash segment(stock) ?

Regards
Pav

 

[SarangSood]

its probably matter of case study that how many MIS traders actually make money? how many r wiped out? Ppl who r generally successful are voicing their opinion.. ppl who r wiped out they r nt there to tell their side of the story .... some leverage makes sense but overleverage hurts mkt ... it increases risk of small brokers going bankrupt on black swan events ... so for the health of the industry more than 3-5X should not be there

It also reduces the participation of arbitragers and algo traders, which in turn helps increase transparency in the markets. But then again that is at the expense of many small retail traders.

 

[Schatz]

Assuming Futures is also affected, I can have decent capital/networth and still be affected as the risk i am allowed to take gets reduced significantly. Its maybe tolerable if trading 1 or 2 scrips only. But if i have to take say 20-25 trades on some days (and more open orders that dont trigger), then there is issue



And how many businesses are successful ?How many investors are successful ? If someone takes irresponsible risk, he pays for it but what happens is because of them others also pay. Brokers running away with money is not so infrequent, and now you force me to give them full capital.

ofcourse i agree with the part that irresponsible traders r responsible for their actions.. but u r not considering the systematic risk... overleverage can kill brokers in black swan events... current generation of traders may not have seen much of that .... some of us must have traded lets say the surgical strike day or trump election day... banknifty options spread was like 200 bid to 300 ask or more... if u r overleveraged and have huge quantity .. u wont be able to get out with that kind of spread without paying hell lot of money to the market maker... things look rosy and hunky dory in normal mkts... when push comes to shove everything breaks down ..

 

[travi]

ofcourse i agree with the part that irresponsible traders r responsible for their actions.. but u r not considering the systematic risk... overleverage can kill brokers in black swan events... current generation of traders may not have seen much of that .... some of us must have traded lets say the surgical strike day or trump election day... banknifty options spread was like 200 bid to 300 ask or more... if u r overleveraged and have huge quantity .. u wont be able to get out with that kind of spread without paying hell lot of money to the market maker... things look rosy and hunky dory in normal mkts... when push comes to shove everything breaks down ..

On a lighter note, the Exchange should maintain client margin instead of instructing and not block anything for open orders
why dont they also start moving their own weight.
Why put the onus on broker, standardize margin across the board, anyway they process all orders, so perform calculation on margin and then process order.

 

[cinderblock]

.... some of us must have traded lets say the surgical strike day or trump election day....

Surgical and Trump were overnight risks. How will disallowing MIS help that?

 

[Schatz]

It also reduces the participation of arbitragers and algo traders, which in turn helps increase transparency in the markets. But then again that is at the expense of many small retail traders.

this thing makes sense only when they go with international std of margin for hedged pos... that itself is leverage and much more than current system.. people r nt getting that we may get much bigger offer than what SEBI is trying to take away.. i will anyday trade this with that... and ppl r mistaken if these 2 things happen.. volume will increase and brokers will make much more money.... only naked future traders will pay big margin and rightly so as u r naked... right now naked gets leveraged and limited risk players pay hell lot more...

 

[Schatz]

no surgical strike was intraday... it happened before mkt hours but nobody knew abt it.. mkt went up in the morning with low volatility and then cracked down post 11 am or so (it was announced then) ... i was long straddle.. i clearly remember the day

 

[lemondew]

Constant fluctuation of rules is whats the problem. If you do that then the industry will stay at the fence and the government itself can start business and employ people.

its probably matter of case study that how many MIS traders actually make money? how many r wiped out? Ppl who r generally successful are voicing their opinion.. ppl who r wiped out they r nt there to tell their side of the story .... some leverage makes sense but overleverage hurts mkt ... it increases risk of small brokers going bankrupt on black swan events ... so for the health of the industry more than 3-5X should not be there