Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[milkyblack]

Saint,

Even I get "SUBJECTIVE" sometimes... and that makes me sad instead of laughing ... as the trade goes wrong
How to overcome this!

Regards

 

[vinst]

Saint,

Thanks for explaining about 'visual gap'. I understood it as a significant gap after extended move in any direction.
At the time of writing ABAN broke below day's low which was also PL, so I guess it is a short now (for learning).

regards,
vin

 

[Satyen]

Hi Satya,

Gone through the chart u posted... if not looking for gaps! Your pivots in my view are just perfect
But as I already mentioned to you, I do not beleive much in backtesting! Yes it is necessary to just have a plan or a method but in reality the trading is really different! Backtesting is to give one a confidence on the method! But implementation is different game all together! Backtesting is good to have a rough estimate that how much the method has given profit/loss drawdowns etc to suit our risk to reward ratio!

Just imagine a situation....

You are long at 4165 with initial SL of 4010
Now the price moves up to say 4255 and then starts falling and goes below the buying price of 4165... TO FORM A NEW HIGHER PIVOT LOW OF 4090 and after that again moves up to 4270 and then moves down TO FORM A NEW HIGHER PIVOT LOW at say 4200(now the trade is profitable)
This process of forming HIGHER PIVOT LOW makes your PAPER PROFITABLE trade into PAPER LOSS TRADE... where if held then comes the ACTUAL PROFIT....
This process in backtesting looks so simple.... when we are at the middle of the chart!
But we trade the end where the price has not happned but happening!

As Saint has already mentioned 60min trading is simple(indeed I find very simple) but not easy(I find not at all easy)!
Why I find very simple is because of Saint defined the rules so clearly!
Why I find not at all easy as I do not have the sound psychology like Saint

Just expressed my views Open to everyones views to learn and share!

Regards

Hi back...
As you talking about psychology .... when do we have psychological probelm when we dont have any prefix rule when we do have to take decission during market hour like should i consider this pivot to be a major pivot or minor pivot .. should i go long or wait for another pivot to form etc etc ..... why this problem coz we have not diferentiated wel between minor and major pivots .....

again after finding pivot we fear about if trade go against me then what ? how much i will lose etc etc ... if we have a sound money management rule and we know how much i can aford to lose in a month and how many losing trade will do so
then there will be no problem

I think psychological problem arises from self confusion having nothing clearly defined

That is why trying to figure out diferent type of pivots

Even CV had written some thing about psychology if get the link will post

This is my thinking

Regards
Satya

 

[Satyen]

Hi All our new pivot low almost at same level

MB , Vin yesterday do we have any major pivot at 3914 but i have marked it as a pivot
waiting you guys veiw

Regards
Satya

 

[Satyen]

Thanks Milky for your effort....
Seek views on my views :
The long taken on 5th June above the high of 12 Noon bar 4636 (my chart shows 4637) to me seems an error..my reason : The aid candle cannot be treated as a Pivot!!! The bar after it makes a lower high but the very next bar breaches the high made by 12 Noon bar hence the pivot status to it is denied. The next pivot according to me is made only on 6th June 10 AM, and that pivot does not breach the previous pivot high hence the short would continue!!!
On 6th according to me, the 12 noon bar made a low of 4640 and was a valid low pivot!!! Why dont we short below this!!! Why wait for next day to short!!??? Am i making any errors in identifying the pivots!!???
Do we have some rule for exiting on the derivatvie closing day!!! OR we roll over our position!!!
Regards
-R K Karnani

Hello Rk attaching a chart why we considered it as pivot
but waiting your veiws about pivot rule,,, are you using rule like ken said before we should have 2 bar before and 2 bar after the pivotal bar which highs lower than the pivotal bar

Regards
Satya

 

[milkyblack]

Hi All our new pivot low almost at same level

MB , Vin yesterday do we have any major pivot at 3914 but i have marked it as a pivot
waiting you guys veiw

Regards
Satya

Hi Satya,

Yes it was a pivot for the sideways consolidation, Long above that for yesterday.

Yes u are right abt the psychology part! Plz do post the link if you can, it will be of grt help!
I will be back later in night, then post the calculation for NF

Regards

 

[Satyen]

Satya and Milkyback I have 3 queries regarding Pivots, as you have been practicing Saint's methods so thought you would be the best judges:-

1. Do we need to have 2 lower highs preceding and following the highest bar to make it pivot or does a 3 bar pattern also count as a valid Pivot.

2. Is it necessary to clear the pivot high before the low can be considered a pivot low or can we form a lower pivot high before crossing the previous pivot high.

3. During consolidation we may have many pivot highs and lows and may get chopped around on both sides, is there any way to identify consolidation

Thanks in advance and hope Saint will also throw some light on these points

Regards

1-Its better and clear pivot but not mandatory you can check we have a pivot on 5th june

2/3 - i am attaching two chart how we can differenciate between pivot low and consolidation
yes i have erased two bars at red arrow in first chart and second one is the complete chart this was explained to me by Saint in this thread and cud not find the link / chart so i m trying with my chart ..

Regards
Satya

its boring too many times have to delete previous charts

 

[debdeeps]

Hi Saint and others, Can anybody please guide me how to trade in a market condition like today's first 25 mins when NF fall around 150 points without making any pivots, just a one way flow. Due to today's gap down opening was thinking to go long but when the flow stopped market was around 200 points down from yesterday's close. So much price movement but lost the oppertunity to trade. By the way I use 5 min chart.

 

[rkkarnani]

Hello Rk attaching a chart why we considered it as pivot
but waiting your veiws about pivot rule,,, are you using rule like ken said before we should have 2 bar before and 2 bar after the pivotal bar which highs lower than the pivotal bar

Regards
Satya

Satya yes, I was , I am under the impression that the pivot must match the fingers on our hand...i.e. atleast two befoe and two after the pivot, and pivot bars may be more than one....

Also satya by your explanation than the 4 pm bar on 4th June was a pivot so the long we went above the 12 noon 5th june bar(above 4636) would be reversed by the 2 pm bar on 5th june which breached the low of 4550 by 25 points, i.e. made a low of 4225...

Shall try to read a bit more on pivots and post my views after some time!!
Thanks for all the efforts!!!
Regards
R K Karnani

 

[vinst]

Hi Satya,

Yes it was a pivot for the sideways consolidation, Long above that for yesterday.

Yes u are right abt the psychology part! Plz do post the link if you can, it will be of grt help!
I will be back later in night, then post the calculation for NF

Regards

NF pivot chart with me. I don't understand this sideways pivot thing. At the time of deciding the pivot, how do we know it is sideways? Btw, the latest PL 3816 is lower than previous PL 3818. and the latest PH was higher than previous PH !
Important is to know : sideways thing?
regards,
vin