Trade Smart Online

[timepass]

Trade price lower than Stop Loss orders Trigger price......possible in volatile market.

Yes, that's what they said.

Spoke to Mr. Pratap first. Then there was a callback by Ms. Chetna and then Mr. Mahesh.

Basically, what they say is that once the trade is triggered (CMP touches trigger price - 54.10 in my case), after that only the upper limit is respected (54.85 in my case), lower limit is not respected.

 

[TraderRavi]

Yes, that's what they said.

Spoke to Mr. Pratap first. Then there was a callback by Ms. Chetna and then Mr. Mahesh.

Basically, what they say is that once the trade is triggered (CMP touches trigger price - 54.10 in my case), after that only the upper limit is respected (54.85 in my case), lower limit is not respected.

then what is the use of lower limit ? we need answers

 

[timepass]

Further, 1) the tick data that I have doesn't show any entry for 53.95

2) My trade was executed at 10:58:19 as per the trade book. As per the data the price at the time was 53.25

 

[Trader J]

Yes, that's what they said.

Spoke to Mr. Pratap first. Then there was a callback by Ms. Chetna and then Mr. Mahesh.

Basically, what they say is that once the trade is triggered (CMP touches trigger price - 54.10 in my case), after that only the upper limit is respected (54.85 in my case), lower limit is not respected.

Fraction of Second required between trigger and placing order, in between there is any lower price order available than it will match and order executed.

It happend with me also, like in normal order, some time we see a buyer @ 54, and we put sale order at 54, order executed @ 54.25 etc, following are data table which showing high (in fourth column) rate was 56.8, 55,55

V.. Val..Open Rate Close RatHigh Rate Low Rate Start Time End Time

55.95 56.45 55.95 56.8 54.05 18-Dec-13 10:56:00
53.7 55 53.7 55 53.7 18-Dec-13 10:57:00
53.5 55 53.5 55 53.05 18-Dec-13 10:58:00
47.35 54.55 47.35 54.55 30.25 18-Dec-13 10:59:00

Data table laging only 5 to 25 second time period....

 

[Niranjanam]

I think this may happen
Infact your order is a limit order for 54.85 with a trigger of 54.10. This one is a resting order.Once market touches 54.10 this limit order is activated. By this time market falls below the trigger. But NSE server assumes that you are prepared to buy up to 54.85 and executes your order at a lesser price giving you an advantage.
I do not anything about tick data but I think you can verify the trade at the NSE site

Niranjanam

 

[Trader J]

then what is the use of lower limit ? we need answers

Use of lower limit for Trigger only.....after trigger the system will put a order and in mean time, if order will match lower than trigger, it would be executed on lower rate.

 

[timepass]

Fraction of Second required between trigger and placing order, in between there is any lower price order available than it will match and order executed.

It happend with me also, like in normal order, some time we see a buyer @ 54, and we put sale order at 54, order executed @ 54.25 etc, following are data table which showing high (in fourth column) rate was 56.8, 55,55

V.. Val..Open Rate Close RatHigh Rate Low Rate Start Time End Time

55.95 56.45 55.95 56.8 54.05 18-Dec-13 10:56:00
53.7 55 53.7 55 53.7 18-Dec-13 10:57:00
53.5 55 53.5 55 53.05 18-Dec-13 10:58:00
47.35 54.55 47.35 54.55 30.25 18-Dec-13 10:59:00

Data table laging only 5 to 25 second time period....

I think this may happen
Infact your order is a limit order for 54.85 with a trigger of 54.10. This one is a resting order.Once market touches 54.10 this limit order is activated. By this time market falls below the trigger. But NSE server assumes that you are prepared to buy up to 54.85 and executes your order at a lesser price giving you an advantage.
I do not anything about tick data but I think you can verify the trade at the NSE site

Niranjanam

Use of lower limit for Trigger only.....after trigger the system will put a order and in mean time, if order will match lower than trigger, it would be executed on lower rate.

With everyone saying that this CAN happen, ok. I understand that it CAN happen. But that doesn't make it right. If the system understands that I am prepared to buy upto a MAXIMUM of 54.85 then why can't it assume that I am prepared to buy at a MINIMUM of 54.1 ?? Below that I expect only downside that's why I kept for buying above 54.1

That it CAN happen doesn't make it right. Also, I haven't read such a thing anywhere in the explanation of the stoploss order.

My point is that it SHOULD NOT happen. So what can we do about it ? Whom can we write to about it ? NOW team ? SEBI ?? NSE ??

Mr. Mahesh of TSO told me that he will mail me the phone no. and email of the concerned person at NOW team.

 

[TradeSmartOnline]

Hello VNS.

I placed an order to buy BNF 10700PE between 54.1 and 54.85

The order was executed at 53.95

How did this happen ?? How was the order executed outside the defined range ?

I have spoken to your office about it and Mr. Pratap said that they will get back to me on this.

The scrip is currently trading @Rs. 15.

Screenshots attached here.

1) Order placed @10.58.18

2) Order completed almost immediately @53.95.

3) Trade book shows the order executed @53.95

Hello timepass,
We understand that you had a discussion with our Trading team on the same. Please let us know if you have any further queries on this.

For the benefit of other community members let us explain in brief what exactly happened.

The order was placed as a stop loss order with the trigger as 54.1 and Price (limit price) as 54.85. This means that anytime after the order is placed, if the price reaches the trigger price of 54.1, your order will become like a limit order with limit price of Rs 54.85.

Trigger price is used in the literal sense as a trigger price to trigger the order. It is not the lower or upper limit for the order. So it'd be incorrect to say to place an order between x and y price.

Coming back to our example. Since the trigger price was immediately reached the order was placed as a buy order with a limit price of 54.85. And the best available price at that time was 53.95 (lower than 54.85), then there's nothing wrong with that as it was a better price for the client.

Please let us know in case you still have any questions.

 

[Trader J]

With everyone saying that this CAN happen, ok. I understand that it CAN happen. But that doesn't make it right. If the system understands that I am prepared to buy upto a MAXIMUM of 54.85 then why can't it assume that I am prepared to buy at a MINIMUM of 54.1 ?? Below that I expect only downside that's why I kept for buying above 54.1

The problem is system not understand waht you want exactly, system for SL order only to put automatic order if any trade done @ trigger price (or above or below trigger price), please dont mind, this is the truth. Thanks

 

[timepass]

Hello timepass,
We understand that you had a discussion with our Trading team on the same. Please let us know if you have any further queries on this.

For the benefit of other community members let us explain in brief what exactly happened.

The order was placed as a stop loss order with the trigger as 54.1 and Price (limit price) as 54.85. This means that anytime after the order is placed, if the price reaches the trigger price of 54.1, your order will become like a limit order with limit price of Rs 54.85.

Trigger price is used in the literal sense as a trigger price to trigger the order. It is not the lower or upper limit for the order. So it'd be incorrect to say to place an order between x and y price.

Coming back to our example. Since the trigger price was immediately reached the order was placed as a buy order with a limit price of 54.85. And the best available price at that time was 53.95 (lower than 54.85), then there's nothing wrong with that as it was a better price for the client.

Please let us know in case you still have any questions.

I had this explanation from your team.

1) Incorrect of you to say that there is no upper or lower limit for the price . There is an upper limit defined (54.85 in this case), so why not a lower limit. The order WON'T execute above 54.85 under any circumstances.

2) It is incorrect to assume that the lower price is a better price for the client. 0.05 is an even better price, isn't it ? So why would I define a range from 54.1 to 54.85 ?? Why not a range from 0.05 to 54.85 ??

I understand that this is how the system is developed and it's no fault of yours. But in my opinion it is wrong for the developer to assume that a lower price is a better price for the buyer. Hence it should be brought to the notice of the developers.

If my order is triggered and there is no ASK in my range i.e. all the ASKs are above my limit, then the order is not executed.

Similarly, if my order is triggered and there is no BID in my range then the order should not be executed.