Trade Smart Online

[TradeSmartOnline]

I had this explanation from your team.

1) Incorrect of you to say that there is no upper or lower limit for the price . There is an upper limit defined (54.85 in this case), so why not a lower limit. The order WON'T execute above 54.85 under any circumstances.

2) It is incorrect to assume that the lower price is a better price for the client. 0.05 is an even better price, isn't it ? So why would I define a range from 54.1 to 54.85 ?? Why not a range from 0.05 to 54.85 ??

I understand that this is how the system is developed and it's no fault of yours. But in my opinion it is wrong for the developer to assume that a lower price is a better price for the buyer. Hence it should be brought to the notice of the developers.

If my order is triggered and there is no ASK in my range i.e. all the ASKs are above my limit, then the order is not executed.

Similarly, if my order is triggered and there is no BID in my range then the order should not be executed.

Ok. What we are saying is that the trigger price is not designed to be used as an lower or upper limit. So we shouldn't use it for that purpose.

 

[timepass]

Ok. What we are saying is that the trigger price is not designed to be used as an lower or upper limit. So we shouldn't use it for that purpose.

Yes. I understand that NOW, after all the explanations here and on phone. But it wasn't clear earlier, was it ? No literature explained it this way anywhere. Ok, granted that it's a rare situation. Now many traders on this forum know it too.

Next, I hope you have understood my position that if an upper limit can be defined, then a lower limit can also be defined. That it's not right to assume that I would consider a lower price as the better price. If so, I would've bought it when it was available at a lower price.

So, if an upper limit can be maintained, the trigger price can also be be considered as the lower limit.

I also understand that this is not something that you have defined and that it's no lacking of yours. I would like to take it up further with whoever are the concerned persons. Please advise and if possible support, if you understand my above mentioned point.

 

[bpr]

I had this explanation from your team.

1) Incorrect of you to say that there is no upper or lower limit for the price . There is an upper limit defined (54.85 in this case), so why not a lower limit. The order WON'T execute above 54.85 under any circumstances.

2) It is incorrect to assume that the lower price is a better price for the client. 0.05 is an even better price, isn't it ? So why would I define a range from 54.1 to 54.85 ?? Why not a range from 0.05 to 54.85 ??

I understand that this is how the system is developed and it's no fault of yours. But in my opinion it is wrong for the developer to assume that a lower price is a better price for the buyer. Hence it should be brought to the notice of the developers.

If my order is triggered and there is no ASK in my range i.e. all the ASKs are above my limit, then the order is not executed.

Similarly, if my order is triggered and there is no BID in my range then the order should not be executed.

TP In SL-L you don't define a range.
In SL-L you have 2 parts Trigger and Slippage.
Trigger price is the price where your trade gets activated. It is not a lower bound as you have assumed.
Once the trigger gets activated it becomes a market order with a max slippage cap.
Once triggered in your case the trade can happen for any price between 0 and 54.85 as per the best price available.

What you are asking might require algo or special type of order which does not exist.

 

[timepass]

TP In SL-L you don't define a range.
In SL-L you have 2 parts Trigger and Slippage.
Trigger price is the price where your trade gets activated. It is not a lower bound as you have assumed.
Once the trigger gets activated it becomes a market order with a max slippage cap.
Once triggered in your case the trade can happen for any price between 0 and 54.85 as per the best price available.

What you are asking might require algo or special type of order which does not exist.

Thanks. I have that explanation now from various sources now.

What I am pointing out is something different. Once the trigger gets activated, the upper limit still holds, doesn't it ? Even if there are no asks in that range. So, my point is that similarly the lower limit should also hold at the trigger, even if there are no bids for it.

 

[timepass]

I have sent a mail to NOW ([email protected]) and a copy to VNS ([email protected]). Will keep the forum updated in this regard. If the members have any suggestions regarding future correspondence with NOW, please give your inputs.

Hello Team NOW,

There appears to be a lacuna in the logic of executing stoploss orders (SL-L). This has caused me some serious loss today. I hope you understand the problem that I am trying to define and take steps to remedy it so that the retail traders do not suffer similarly.

Or, if I have made any mistake in placing the order, please tell me how to place an order so that it gets executed within the price range I want (in this case Rs. 54.10-Rs.54.85), and under no circumstances at any other price.

My broker has explained to me how the problem happened and I am now clear on the fact that a SL-L order can execute a buy below my trigger price.

Wrt my order no. 2013121827683800 executed vide trade no. 25147018, what happened was :

1) The above order was placed at 10:58:18. It was a stoploss order with trigger price Rs. 54.10 and limit price Rs. 54.85.

2) My trade book shows that the order was executed at 10:58:19 at a price of Rs. 53.95, below the trigger price.

3) My broker has explained that a trade was executed in the price range defined by me, then my order was triggered, and executed at the next available BID price below my limit price.

Keeping the above in mind, I want to say that :
1) I wanted to buy the scrip ABOVE Rs. 54.10, assuming that the trend was not up if the price didn't cross Rs. 54. Hence I place a "buy above" order using SL-L feature. If I wanted to buy at MAXIMUM Rs. 54.85, I could've bought it earlier when it was trading at lower prices.

2) While the "Limit" price acts as a ceiling, the trigger price does NOT act as the floor. Why ?? Can't it be made possible ??

3) If, after the buy order is triggered, there are no ASKs below my Limit price, the order won't be executed because the ASK is too high.

Similarly, if the BIDS are lower than the trigger price then the trade should not be executed.

I hope that my problem is clear enough. That if I wanted to buy at a lower price, I would have defined a lower range. It's not right to assume that the buyer wants a lower price only. If that was the case I would've put 0.05 as the trigger price, instead of Rs. 54.10.

Please look into it and revert. If possible, please make it possible in your future versions so that the traders can feel more comfortable placing SL-L order.

Thanks

-----------name----------
A/c. No. xxxxx-09643
Surat
(M) xxxxxxxxxx

 

[timepass]

TP In SL-L you don't define a range.
In SL-L you have 2 parts Trigger and Slippage.
Trigger price is the price where your trade gets activated. It is not a lower bound as you have assumed.
Once the trigger gets activated it becomes a market order with a max slippage cap.
Once triggered in your case the trade can happen for any price between 0 and 54.85 as per the best price available.

What you are asking might require algo or special type of order which does not exist.

Can you get me the tick data for this scrip (BNF10700PE) for today for 10:58:18 and 10:58.19

These are the timings when my order was placed and executed.

 

[carnot11]

Hello,

Below is as per my understanding, hope it helps.

ase 1 -

You have made a buy @ 100 (logic buy as low as possible to get max profit when sell).

You place a sell order

Cover Order (SL-L) - Limit is 95, Trigger is 97. Hence when 97 order is triggered and gets executed only if there is
a buyer at or above 95. Else status is pending for sell at or above 95.

Cover Order (SL-M) - Limit is not specified, Trigger is 97. Hence when 97 order is triggered and gets executed at market price.
Since it is market order the logic is Price - Time advantage.
For sell order it is as high a price as possible, depending on your order time.
If some body is in que before your order time (for same price) he is given preference.
If no buyer, your order is pending.

case 2 -

You have made a sell @ 100 (logic sell as high as possible to get max profit when buy).

You place a buy order

Cover Order (SL-L) - Limit is 105, Trigger is 103. Hence when 103 order is triggered and gets executed only if there is
a seller at or below 105. Else status is pending for buy at or below 105.

Cover Order (SL-M) - Limit is not specified, Trigger is 103. Hence when 103 order is triggered and gets executed at market price.
Since it is market order the logic is Price - Time advantage.
For buy order it is as low a price as possible, depending on your order time.
If some body is in que before your order time (for same price) he is given preference.
If no seller your order is pending.

case 3 -

You want to buy only if price goes above certain value -
You place a SL-L buy order.

case 4 -

You want to sell only if price goes above certain value -
You place a SL-L sell order.

case 5 -

You want to buy not more than a certain price -
You place a normal buy limit order

case 6 -

You want to sell not below a certain price -
You place a normal sell limit order
_________________________________________________________________

Enjoy,
CArnot

 

[timepass]

Hello,

Below is as per my understanding, hope it helps.

ase 1 -

You have made a buy @ 100 (logic buy as low as possible to get max profit when sell).

You place a sell order

Cover Order (SL-L) - Limit is 95, Trigger is 97. Hence when 97 order is triggered and gets executed only if there is
a buyer at or above 95. Else status is pending for sell at or above 95.

Cover Order (SL-M) - Limit is not specified, Trigger is 97. Hence when 97 order is triggered and gets executed at market price.
Since it is market order the logic is Price - Time advantage.
For sell order it is as high a price as possible, depending on your order time.
If some body is in que before your order time (for same price) he is given preference.
If no buyer, your order is pending.

Enjoy,
CArnot

Carnot, why are you giving all these scenarios ??

Also, there is a flaw in your logic. If I wanted to buy as low as possible, I would give limit price as 0.05, wouldn't I ?

The logic would say that you buy when you believe there is an uptrend. So I believed that the scrip would NOT be in uptrend unless the price crossed Rs. 54. Hence the trigger price of Rs. 54.10

Hope this clarifies.

 

[carnot11]

Carnot, why are you giving all these scenarios ??

Also, there is a flaw in your logic. If I wanted to buy as low as possible, I would give limit price as 0.05, wouldn't I ?

The logic would say that you buy when you believe there is an uptrend. So I believed that the scrip would NOT be in uptrend unless the price crossed Rs. 54. Hence the trigger price of Rs. 54.10

Hope this clarifies.

Hello,

My sincere apologies. Regret the inconvenience caused.

Enjoy,
CArnot

 

[bpr]

Can you get me the tick data for this scrip (BNF10700PE) for today for 10:58:18 and 10:58.19

These are the timings when my order was placed and executed.

I don't have account with TSO if you want to check the tick data in TSO terminal.
But also please note all the ticks that happen at exchange need not necessarily be viewed at terminal.You view a subset of it but the execution happens on all of the ticks. This is for all the brokers. This was discussed in another brokers thread here.

Your best bet to verify if the trigger happen correctly is to verify from nse website.