Upstox - RKSV - Trade in Rs 20 Max

[Subhadip]

where is the R&D?

what you are doing?
any plan for MCX?

any other trading platform other than NOW?

 

[RKSV]

But, RKSV, once the trading platform and DP issues are taken care of, the "customer service" becomes more of an efficient telephone operators system or a BPO system, with maybe 1 or 2 seniors to attend to the more serious queries. I bet 95% of the "service" required is about 5-6 regular queries (maybe margin problems, payin/payout, NOW issues, order placement etc..) which any newbie call centre attendant can be trained for. I see it for various types of "customer service centres".

In my experience, ALL the new discount brokers over last 2-3 years have EXCELLENT customer service. The only distinguishing feature being the pricing plan.

If the discount brokers are targeting high frequency/high volume traders, then the price will hold the key, because almost everyone will offer the same features - NOW platform, similar margin structures, IL&FS DP, similar pledging of holdings etc...

Just my 2c.

Hi timepass,

You are right to a certain extent. I wouldn't say 95% are common queries, it's much less. However, your general point can be noted.

The only road ahead is better technology. Whether it's through better service or trading tools it will happen soon. Else, every broker will jump to the opportunity and price cut one another (which is already happening).

 

[RKSV]

where is the R&D?

what you are doing?
any plan for MCX?

any other trading platform other than NOW?

MCX and other trading platforms are coming soon.. We've already got membership at MCX Commodities. Other formalities are underway.

 

[Subhadip]

MCX and other trading platforms are coming soon.. We've already got membership at MCX Commodities. Other formalities are underway.

waiting for that.....

 

[timepass]

Hi timepass,

You are right to a certain extent. I wouldn't say 95% are common queries, it's much less. However, your general point can be noted.

The only road ahead is better technology. Whether it's through better service or trading tools it will happen soon. Else, every broker will jump to the opportunity and price cut one another (which is already happening).

In that case, the trading tools should be such as to be very useful to a high frequency/high volume trader. An intraday trader/scalper generally places only limited faith in the technicals, getting in on the price action for a quickie.

 

[bharath.mang]

Now that there are multiple brokers offering discount brokerage, it's going to start coming in mass fashion. It may not be hard to set up NSE NOW and cut prices to bring customers. But what everyone should look for is the quality of service now that everyone is on flat footing when it comes to technology.

At RKSV, one of our objectives in our mission statement is to provide excellent customer service. Many brokers will start saying this or something similar to this but we really care about this. As a customer, whether day trader or investor, money is important to you. If you have any doubts regarding your portfolio or your broker, you would immediately call or email him/her

We don't usually share statistics but will share something with you. We are fanatic with metrics on customer service. We track and improve, month to month, how fast we get to your queries and how fast we resolve them on the first try. The holding time to our call and trade desk has improved 10% since January of this year. Our response time for emails have improved 20% since inception. We have gone through three phone systems, two help desk systems and invested in numerous tracking software to keep up and beat the load.

We're not the first guys in the discount brokerage industry and we won't be the last . There are going to be tons of guys jumping on this ship. Copying is easy but to keep innovating is difficult. Now what should also be considered is company vision, background, experience, and commitment to uphold their promises.

P.S. Before the market order question comes up, we are coming up with a solution soon

I have to agree with you guys on this, I have received atleast 10 emails in last 2 weeks, 2000, 1000, 500 etc etc per month. I don't know if all the clients are doing their due diligence before starting off with a broker and not just based on how low it can get.

I remember on google it was you everywhere, but now I find 10 brokers all low cost if I search for options brokerage.. .. where are the sharekhan's etc of the world, have they stopped advertising???

I am trading with Zerodha and usually am on traderji looking at a few threads. Don't mistake me, but somehow I find the person posting for Zerodha and RKSV, have similar ways to put forward their thought .. I mean some of your posts about technology etc is what Zerodha was posting before they moved away from NOW.. So my guess would be that you would also be migrating out of NOW, to what are you moving to?

Also the reason I posted was because I was reading on traderji after a while and saw this post by Zerodha and yours on how technology would be the differentiator, guess around when you posted this as well. Here is what Zerodha had posted and wanted to know your thoughts..


If you are talking about a fixed monthly fees, I don't think we would be subscribing to that model ever as we think it is flawed. The idea behind discount broking, how it has successfully worked across developed markets is that in today's online world, for a broker the cost of executing a trade doesn't go up with the size of the trade, so if the cost is not going up why charge client based on the size of his trade. In the US, discount brokers charge between $4 to $8 per trade, based on where you trade. In India, the regulatory cost, exchange deposits etc are much lesser than what is in US and hence we can offer you a platform at much lesser than even the lowest available int the US, at zerodha Rs 20 which is around $0.4 10% of that.

With a fixed monthly plan, the logic is flawed because how can the effort put for 2 clients be the same if 1 is trading once a month and the other 100 times a month. The other way to look at is, is like a buffet system in a hotel. You offer unlimited food at same time assuming that only few people will be eating more and hence it will workout on the average. But the risk with this is, that the math can keep going wrong once a while, have you been to buffet where you realize where you have paid for a buffet, but don't get the choice of what you want to eat?

Even if you assume that this will keep working, this model can go completely awry when you mix this buffet kind of model with a-la-carte, that is offer a fixed monthly fees and also offer a per trade fees. This is like saying people who eat very less choose by dish and those who think trade more choose the fixed, yes sounds brilliant for a client, but how does the business make money? If the business doesn't make money, how does he continue offering his services over a long term? What if tomorrow NOW is not free and brokers have to start spending on technology? If he is constantly worried about all of this, how does he stay focused on improving the services? Brokerage is the only business in the world which is constant deflation, the prices keep coming down, so yes everyone will clap when you reduce prices, but can you increase the price if you realize that your initial model was maybe not correct?

Am sitting in an airport and had sometime and hence the long post.. .. The idea is to not point to any brokers, but we have been getting requests on monthly fixed charges and wanted to clarify on why we won't be offering such a deal.

 

[timepass]

I have to agree with you guys on this, I have received atleast 10 emails in last 2 weeks, 2000, 1000, 500 etc etc per month. I don't know if all the clients are doing their due diligence before starting off with a broker and not just based on how low it can get.

I remember on google it was you everywhere, but now I find 10 brokers all low cost if I search for options brokerage.. .. where are the sharekhan's etc of the world, have they stopped advertising???

I am trading with Zerodha and usually am on traderji looking at a few threads. Don't mistake me, but somehow I find the person posting for Zerodha and RKSV, have similar ways to put forward their thought .. I mean some of your posts about technology etc is what Zerodha was posting before they moved away from NOW.. So my guess would be that you would also be migrating out of NOW, to what are you moving to?

Also the reason I posted was because I was reading on traderji after a while and saw this post by Zerodha and yours on how technology would be the differentiator, guess around when you posted this as well. Here is what Zerodha had posted and wanted to know your thoughts..

If you are talking about a fixed monthly fees, I don't think we would be subscribing to that model ever as we think it is flawed. The idea behind discount broking, how it has successfully worked across developed markets is that in today's online world, for a broker the cost of executing a trade doesn't go up with the size of the trade, so if the cost is not going up why charge client based on the size of his trade. In the US, discount brokers charge between $4 to $8 per trade, based on where you trade. In India, the regulatory cost, exchange deposits etc are much lesser than what is in US and hence we can offer you a platform at much lesser than even the lowest available int the US, at zerodha Rs 20 which is around $0.4 10% of that.

With a fixed monthly plan, the logic is flawed because how can the effort put for 2 clients be the same if 1 is trading once a month and the other 100 times a month. The other way to look at is, is like a buffet system in a hotel. You offer unlimited food at same time assuming that only few people will be eating more and hence it will workout on the average. But the risk with this is, that the math can keep going wrong once a while, have you been to buffet where you realize where you have paid for a buffet, but don't get the choice of what you want to eat?

Even if you assume that this will keep working, this model can go completely awry when you mix this buffet kind of model with a-la-carte, that is offer a fixed monthly fees and also offer a per trade fees. This is like saying people who eat very less choose by dish and those who think trade more choose the fixed, yes sounds brilliant for a client, but how does the business make money? If the business doesn't make money, how does he continue offering his services over a long term? What if tomorrow NOW is not free and brokers have to start spending on technology? If he is constantly worried about all of this, how does he stay focused on improving the services? Brokerage is the only business in the world which is constant deflation, the prices keep coming down, so yes everyone will clap when you reduce prices, but can you increase the price if you realize that your initial model was maybe not correct?

Am sitting in an airport and had sometime and hence the long post.. .. The idea is to not point to any brokers, but we have been getting requests on monthly fixed charges and wanted to clarify on why we won't be offering such a deal.

Ah.. Bharat.mang, the guy who introduced traderji members to the world of discount brokers, the starter of the original Zerodha thread . Good to hear from you here. Since you have quoted Zerodha's post, you may also quote the replies to it, that the buffet too is a successfully running business model, and the most suitable to mass catering .

Anyway, I had another thought, that in denigrating the fixed monthly plans, the same argument can be applied to a fixed brokerage per trade plan.

As for RKSV's trading platform, they have spoken of it earlier, that they wouldn't let the cat out of the bag till they are fully ready with it. Till then they are sticking with NOW.

 

[bharath.mang]

Ah.. Bharat.mang, the guy who introduced traderji members to the world of discount brokers, the starter of the original Zerodha thread . Good to hear from you here. Since you have quoted Zerodha's post, you may also quote the replies to it, that the buffet too is a successfully running business model, and the most suitable to mass catering .

Anyway, I had another thought, that in denigrating the fixed monthly plans, the same argument can be applied to a fixed brokerage per trade plan.

As for RKSV's trading platform, they have spoken of it earlier, that they wouldn't let the cat out of the bag till they are fully ready with it. Till then they are sticking with NOW.

Hey TimePass,

Thanks, seems like it was a really long time back since I first posted about Zerodha, I feel old now considering the interim period and all the stress that I have taken because of trading..

I keep looking at RKSV thread and Zerodha thread, because they somehow keep educating u on something directly or indirectly..

My curiosity of asking the question was, it is pretty obvious from all the posts that RKSV will offer a new trading platform soon. If they do, I wanted to know what Zerodha had mentioned in their thread, does it really apply, especially when RKSV themselves over the last few threads have been saying that technology would be the differentiator and I mean it once they introduce the new platform..

 

[RKSV]

I have to agree with you guys on this, I have received atleast 10 emails in last 2 weeks, 2000, 1000, 500 etc etc per month. I don't know if all the clients are doing their due diligence before starting off with a broker and not just based on how low it can get.

I remember on google it was you everywhere, but now I find 10 brokers all low cost if I search for options brokerage.. .. where are the sharekhan's etc of the world, have they stopped advertising???

I am trading with Zerodha and usually am on traderji looking at a few threads. Don't mistake me, but somehow I find the person posting for Zerodha and RKSV, have similar ways to put forward their thought .. I mean some of your posts about technology etc is what Zerodha was posting before they moved away from NOW.. So my guess would be that you would also be migrating out of NOW, to what are you moving to?

Also the reason I posted was because I was reading on traderji after a while and saw this post by Zerodha and yours on how technology would be the differentiator, guess around when you posted this as well. Here is what Zerodha had posted and wanted to know your thoughts..


If you are talking about a fixed monthly fees, I don't think we would be subscribing to that model ever as we think it is flawed. The idea behind discount broking, how it has successfully worked across developed markets is that in today's online world, for a broker the cost of executing a trade doesn't go up with the size of the trade, so if the cost is not going up why charge client based on the size of his trade. In the US, discount brokers charge between $4 to $8 per trade, based on where you trade. In India, the regulatory cost, exchange deposits etc are much lesser than what is in US and hence we can offer you a platform at much lesser than even the lowest available int the US, at zerodha Rs 20 which is around $0.4 10% of that.

With a fixed monthly plan, the logic is flawed because how can the effort put for 2 clients be the same if 1 is trading once a month and the other 100 times a month. The other way to look at is, is like a buffet system in a hotel. You offer unlimited food at same time assuming that only few people will be eating more and hence it will workout on the average. But the risk with this is, that the math can keep going wrong once a while, have you been to buffet where you realize where you have paid for a buffet, but don't get the choice of what you want to eat?

Even if you assume that this will keep working, this model can go completely awry when you mix this buffet kind of model with a-la-carte, that is offer a fixed monthly fees and also offer a per trade fees. This is like saying people who eat very less choose by dish and those who think trade more choose the fixed, yes sounds brilliant for a client, but how does the business make money? If the business doesn't make money, how does he continue offering his services over a long term? What if tomorrow NOW is not free and brokers have to start spending on technology? If he is constantly worried about all of this, how does he stay focused on improving the services? Brokerage is the only business in the world which is constant deflation, the prices keep coming down, so yes everyone will clap when you reduce prices, but can you increase the price if you realize that your initial model was maybe not correct?

Am sitting in an airport and had sometime and hence the long post.. .. The idea is to not point to any brokers, but we have been getting requests on monthly fixed charges and wanted to clarify on why we won't be offering such a deal.

Hey bharath,

Not going to comment on their pricing logic or business vision. We have been able to make it work and keep it up.

Just food for thought Zecco.com (ZEro Commisson COst), a famous US broker, started by giving out zero brokerage. They soon started charging brokerage (pay per trade) but customers were okay with it because of the service and platform they got in return. Not suggesting that RKSV is going to raise prices, but just goes to show that brokerage industry is similar to every other industry in pricing.

On platforms, yep we have some work going on and will share our first iteration in the coming time..

 

[soft_trader]

Hey bharath,

Not going to comment on their pricing logic or business vision. We have been able to make it work and keep it up.

Just food for thought Zecco.com (ZEro Commisson COst), a famous US broker, started by giving out zero brokerage. They soon started charging brokerage (pay per trade) but customers were okay with it because of the service and platform they got in return. Not suggesting that RKSV is going to raise prices, but just goes to show that brokerage industry is similar to every other industry in pricing.

On platforms, yep we have some work going on and will share our first iteration in the coming time..

But, can RKSV provide such type of platform to Indian traders? or it will be same old recipe of either NEST or ODIN?