Zerodha - Number One Discount Broker in India

[stock72]

Zerodha,

Is it possible to open account and start trading with out pan and get and provide the pan number later ? say in two months ?

 

[doshiv]

Zerodha,

Is it possible to open account and start trading with out pan and get and provide the pan number later ? say in two months ?

Noooooooooooooo

 

[Trader J]

You can look in the Span Calculator.

Its Rs 62,237 for the 5000 CE.
Rs 18,782 for the 6200 CE. The rest will be inbetween them.

Its mean shorting the one lot NIFTY using Rs 62,237...wow. May be this is one of the reasons for USA Shutdown !!!

 

[traderite]

It was actually SEBI's decision to discontinue trading in Mini Nifty to ensure small investors don't get attracted towards the derivative markets, considering the risks that come with trading derivatives.. http://www.sebi.gov.in/cms/sebi_data/attachdocs/1353409729402.pdf
Totally understand what you've to say considering that risk is an inherent factor of the market and is not necessarily restricted to derivatives.. I know people who've lost much more trading stocks as compared to derivatives.. Mini Nifty was a good stepping stone for someone who was exploring the derivatives markets.. We'll do our best to put forward a recommendation to the Exchange to reintroduce Mini contracts..

Thanks Zerodha for your kind reply on the issue. Atleast I could hope that someday it might be re-introduced. :clapping:

 

[RAVI1952]

Thank you.

 

[love2trading]

hi zerodha,

i cannot able to trade intraday (MIS) in Jetairways scrip...!!! ( full margin required for this scrip like delivery)

pls give the scrip list that not able to trade intraday trade(mis)

thanks

 

[RAVI1952]

Ravi,

Don't want to discuss about this anymore, all these posts here look more like slandering rather than you looking for a solution, because if you were you'd have wanted to talk about it personally and not a public forum.

Let me give a last shot at explaining the situation to you,

You have 3lks in your account as cash, you have received 4lks as premium by writing deep in the money call options and taken a position worth 8lks with those 3lks in your account.

Assuming you have taken 30 lots short deep ITM nifty with these 8lks, you will be loosing 1.5lks for every 100 point jump in nifty and also the fact that this is deep ITM the spread is so large that you loose atleast 30 points on the spread. If Nifty bounces more than 200 points and heading into end of day where it might bounce a lot more next day, that could mean a potential loss of 4 to 5lks out of which only 3lks is yours, the rest would be Zerodha's.
Your query about you not knowing how much premium is in your account is hmm, all you have to do is multiply the lotsize and yesterdays closing price of the option, that is the premium available in your account, if you didn't know this I am sorry, but usually most brokers backoffice in India doesn't show this after T+1, because now that premium is credited to your account. we are working on providing a new backoffice which has got the works, will make sure that it shows up on that.

my question to you is, put yourself in the shoes of us as a broker and let us know would you let this happen and take that risk.

Your question now might be, why do you let me get so much premium in the first place and also use terms like unscrupulous,

@Ravi, what you have conveniently not mentioned on this forum is the call we had(Sachin), when you started the business with us. You may not remember, but I clearly do where you gave me the story of how you have traded across the world and you don't understand the logic in which option writing margins are blocked in India.
I had told you that because most of us are traders at Zerodha, we understand that risks of option writing is lesser than that of trading futures and we block lesser margins and you get that benefit.

This benefit is given to help traders rather than abuse the benefit. If you probably go to one of those so called big brokers, you would never in the first place be allowed to write to receive so much premium, so you'd probably have been allowed to take 6 to 8 lots with your 3lks, that is if they allowed you to write deep in the money option( a lot of big names don't allow you to write them at all).

You are welcome to stop trading with us and move brokerages, please do, so that you can understand the benefit we are trying to provide. If you move to a broker whose risk management doesn't understand this, then god bless that brokerage firm.

If you want to know how much exactly the margin requirement is for such deep in the money option ,send me an email([email protected]), I will make sure that as a special case we set the rule for you to know. But since you are already running a position where you have pocketed the premium, you would have to first exit it, for you to know that exact impact.

All said and done, we will give this benefit for writing option, because there are thousands of our clients who use it. Yes if markets get volatile, we get strict about it and pare down the positions which won't cause us an unwarranted risk, if markets gap down 5% in the morning, we will do this paring down positions by 10 am or anytime during the day.

There is no point discussing all this on a public forum, you might have the time, but we are working hard and I just spent half an hour on a hard earned holiday writing this here. You know the rules now, if you want to talk send an email and I will call you back, but let us stop wasting each others time here..

Best of luck,

Hi,

The problem is you are replying with hypothetical examples and I am asking response to the specific situations with numbers. I do not know why are you twisting the whole issue? May be you know for sure that you cannot justify your stand in this particular case.
(2) Please note that first I took up the issue with you directly on 19th September. You did not give any satisfactory response. I raised specific queries . You chose not to reply to me directly nor you have replied so far on this forum.
(3) I do not know who is Sachin. I am hearing this name in Zerodha for the first time. The discussion as mentioned in your response appears to be your far fetched dream.
(4) For your kind information, i know at least two brokers who are very upright in margin policy. I have already moved with one of them. So I do not need your guidance and do not want to be cheated by you again.

 

[Delaroche]

ravi,
i would appreciate if you could let know the names of the broker firm you have moved to. curious .. tht's all.

 

[RAVI1952]

" They disallow the funds available to client as option writing premium" -(quoted)-
I approve Zerodha's action in such a case . Using the premium received from an in-risk position to create another in-risk position should be called as pyramiding.

I am surprised on your quick decision. The issue is not whether they allow or not. The issue is whether they are transparent and disallow this uniformly or at sweetwill. If they disallow,margin on premium writing,then why "clients margin " in back office and under surveillance in RMS "Clients margin" include premium on writing options.If they are transparent then the Margin in back office should be after excluding premium on writing options.

Let me explain,why this is important. On 19th September, when market was volatile, I looked at m margin position under surveillance "Clients Margin" and transferred Rs.90,000 to my account in Zerodha. I also planned to cut some of my positions as I was not sure what will happen the next day in RBI policy. In fact based on the margin position under surveillance, there was no need for me to cut my position. To my surprise, Zerodha cut my position at 2.44 pm i.e well before 3.10 pm. When I asked"Why position were cut,the response was Premium on writing options is not allowed towards margin. My question is,Why was it allowed few days ago when i took additional positions. Had this policy been applied uniformly, probably, I would not have taken (1) less positions at first stage. Had I known that the margin requirement is more, I would have added more funds.

Let someone tell."How do I know that the margin allowed earlier to enable me to take additional positions is no longer available. and the same is also not shown in clients margin position. Do you expect me to dream the changed basis of margin calculations?

If you are impartial, please try to understand the point that I am making.

Thank you,

 

[nac]

Ravi is open to have the discussion out here in the open forum and Zerodha doesn't feel comfortable doing so...

100 free trades... i.e., 2000/- How much he lost by liquidating his position???

Based on the numbers Arcus gave with regards to margin, and Zerodha's sample scenario (3 lakh capital and 4 lakh premium received) it seems like Zerodha wouldn't be in a position to pay from their pocket if there was any loss even after 200 point gap open (approx) that happened on 19th Sep (that was the date RAVI took up this issue).

It's better if Zerodha clarifies it here...