How to choose the right software for trading

beginner_av

Well-Known Member
#41
Other than that this last post of yours was a little unclear to me as to what exactly you are trying to say. A bit of clarity will be of immense help.
Yes I agrre with you, but, using COM is like asking
someone to sprint who doesn't even know how to walk. The same reason I do not encourage newbies to write trading systems. Cos mos of them start writing entry or exit signal without even knowing data division, objective functions or even stuff like how to deal with data holes, reset indicators or how much data to take to feed as indicator inputs (and many many more). most just blindly use whatever the software provides them.
It is all about gaining proficiency. If you do reach a higher level, you can use C++ along with Excel to do ALL your trading. You dont even need charts et all to bog down your system. As for C++ or C# VC++ has many libraries like C# that can be used readily, but of course getting a LEGAL, cheap C# compiler is difficult than a C++ one. Java is handy in this aspect. It is not a discussion about C++ vs C# but I must mention that C# will be better than C++ as it is a newer, higher level language but it depends on how you intend to use it. There's no right answer without knowing what you wnat to do with it. IN C# garbage collection/interfacing are simpler, and for using COM interfacing it is much much better, but speedwise C++ is way ahead.

To answer the second part, you can use COM because the author has exposed the objects to be used with the COM interface (I am sure you have checked out AB documentation to see WHICH specific objects are exposed). ALL software are not open like AB, thus I was giving the example of Tradecision.


And finally, you learn a complete programming language to learn programming itself - a few basic stuff like variables, recursions, function calls, interfacing, parameter passing etc. Once you know these, you can master any lang in 3 days.

Finally, I never support wizards, cos they produce a brain dead generation. Ask anyone how a EMA is calculated, see how many can answer. ask them to plot 20, and they will do it. Ask them how no of days affect EMAs, and they'll look at you as if you have come from Mars.

Hope I am clear.
 
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skarpio

Active Member
#42
Yes I agrre with you, but, using COM is like asking someone to sprint who doesn't even know how to walk. The same reason I do not encourage newbies to write trading systems. [...]
Hold on. This is where a line has to be drawn -- between domain knowledge and implementation skills in a particular language. It goes without saying, the latter without proficiency in the former is useless. I was trying to help out with whatever little experience I have with the latter.
It is all about gaining proficiency. If you do reach a higher level, you can use C++ along with Excel to do ALL your trading. You dont even need charts et all to bog down your system. As for C++ or C# VC++ has many libraries like C# that can be used readily, but of course getting a LEGAL, cheap C# compiler is difficult than a C++ one. Java is handy in this aspect.
Sure, Excel is one of the better things MS has come up with and is underutilized. Check out VS Express Edition -- it is free.
It is not a discussion about C++ vs C# but I must mention that C# will be better than C++ as it is a newer, higher level language but it depends on how you intend to use it. There's no right answer without knowing what you wnat to do with it. IN C# garbage collection/interfacing are simpler, and for using COM interfacing it is much much better, but speedwise C++ is way ahead.
I agree on the C# point. As for speed, search and you'll find enough conflicting results as to which is a better language of any given two. It boils down to how you tune your system and the conditions under which your programs execute.
To answer the second part, you can use COM because the author has exposed the objects to be used with the COM interface (I am sure you have checked out AB documentation to see WHICH specific objects are exposed). ALL software are not open like AB, thus I was giving the example of Tradecision.
Ah, alright then.

And finally, you learn a complete programming language to learn programming itself - a few basic stuff like variables, recursions, function calls, interfacing, parameter passing etc. Once you know these, you can master any lang in 3 days.
You might want to revisit the last line. Or, we differ how we define the term 'mastery' [of a language]. Syntax can be picked up with relative ease but defining the domain specific problem (and hence the solution) requires a reasonably good command of the semantics, which, my experience says, takes a while. Unless of course, you are gifted beyond most individuals.
Finally, I never support wizards, cos they produce a brain dead generation. Ask anyone how a EMA is calculated, see how many can answer. ask them to plot 20, and they will do it. Ask them how no of days affect EMAs, and they'll look at you as if you have come from Mars.

Hope I am clear.
Um, I get your point. But look at this from my perspective -- learning programming *is* difficult. When you do learn, you don't want to repeat laborious, unproductive steps. Hope I am clear.

It is refreshing to discuss with you all this, but I bet I have taken the thread to new heights of digression, probably at the cost of most marking me as a troll. Should need be, we can surely resume the discussion in a separate thread, under a more appropriate sub-forum. I would be looking forward to such a discussion! Further, if you feel like it, I would love to see some more discussion on "data division, objective functions or even stuff like how to deal with data holes, reset indicators or how much data to take to feed as indicator inputs ". And maybe, I can chip in, if anyone needs help on programming as well.

With this I will stop posting anymore on this topic here.

Thanks!
 

ash.paul

Active Member
#43
Suppose you want the s/w to screen all stocks where the Range is decreasing along with low volumes how would that specific custom requirement be fullfiled,either we have some basic understanding of the prog. Lang that the s/w understands or we pay to a professional code writer.

The best way to learn the code lang is to go thru each line of any code (written by others).Now a days most people have a basic idea of C++ & most of these s/w are very user friendly.

Going thru your posts & Abhijeet's able guidance for last few days ; i am confident you can definetly make it.An efficient code writer is never a pre-condition for being a successful Trader.You can always Buy it.

Jesse is extremely proficient in Language Also; there are many other having good workable knowledge,this thread initiator is one of them.
Thank you Ashish ! You guys have provided a row of insight, still have to admit all these things seems rocket science 4 me right now. Anyway long way to go, let me fasten my belts and ready for the ride.
 

devangan123

Well-Known Member
#45
Hello AV Sir

First of All many many thanks for such a good post .
Sir Please guide me which one software is best for Intraday day trading Purpose from below list . Assume that all are free for me since I am a Internet Insect :D except data source

1) MetaStock Pro Real Time

2) Ami Broker

3) NeuroShell DayTrader Professional .

And assume that I am good in T.A , but zero in using any of these software, so please guide me which one to use .


Regards
 

beginner_av

Well-Known Member
#46
You might want to revisit the last line. Or, we differ how we define the term 'mastery' [of a language]. Syntax can be picked up with relative ease but defining the domain specific problem (and hence the solution) requires a reasonably good command of the semantics, which, my experience says, takes a while. Unless of course, you are gifted beyond most individuals.

yes ths is my point too, but from a different perspective. One way is to copy/read syntax without understanding the way it works. You pick up in 1 day. Other way is to work hard and learn the nitty-gritties, and then pick up any language specific syntax. You again pick up in 1 day.


Um, I get your point. But look at this from my perspective -- learning programming *is* difficult. When you do learn, you don't want to repeat laborious, unproductive steps. Hope I am clear.
When you learn, it is no more laborious! and yes if you are a true programmer, the first thing you would do is to find a way to automate/ease out repetitive tasks, using the wizard is just one of the ways. But as you said, learn first!

You can keep posting here, no probs.
 

beginner_av

Well-Known Member
#47
Hello AV Sir

First of All many many thanks for such a good post .
Sir Please guide me which one software is best for Intraday day trading Purpose from below list . Assume that all are free for me since I am a Internet Insect :D except data source

1) MetaStock Pro Real Time

2) Ami Broker

3) NeuroShell DayTrader Professional .

And assume that I am good in T.A , but zero in using any of these software, so please guide me which one to use .


Regards
There is no specific answer. The fact that you are asking this means this thread has been pretty useless till now. Confined within your choice

If you dont know programming, dont know/want to use Neural Nets, dont want to write custom backtest, build cutom indicators etc but can download/buy lot of 3rd party tools - Metastock

If you know/willing to learn programming, dont know/want to use Neural Nets, DO want to write backtest, write cutom indicators etc - Amibroker

If you do not know programming, know/want to learn Neural nets, and want to use loads of indicators through easy interface - Neuroshell

of course I cannot say if any of these will halp you in making more money.
 

devangan123

Well-Known Member
#48
If you do not know programming, know/want to learn Neural nets, and want to use loads of indicators through easy interface - Neuroshell

of course I cannot say if any of these will halp you in making more money.
Don't mind Sir but do you really think that any software can make money for a Trader ? It can only help in analyzing in a better way and most important quick enough. This is all I expect from a Trading software .

Trading software can make money for Software vendors only , not for trader but they can help a lot in proper analysis.

Regarding Programming , Yes I am a java certified Programmer and MBA Systems , its not an issue of whether I can or want to program or not , Why should we consume time in say abc software if that programming is already ready made available in xyz software , My question was regarding this issue . Which is well equipped software among listed 3 , and if some body thinks amibroker is best software to program and extend its use , than Boroland C++ compiler is best software .

Any way your this forum is very very useful and no doubt on this issue but as u said in starting that u are little biased on amibroker that is the only doubt because most of readers of this post may not be able to program especially non-technical background

And sorry if any thing hurted you

Regards
 

citrus

Well-Known Member
#49
Hi beginner_av,
I have tried many trading s/w. I personally found Amibroker to be most versatile.
Though I have a huge compilation of AFLs, yet I found that none serve my purpose.
Similar was the case with other popular softwares. Further, hopping from one program to another consumes lot of time and energy in learning and data transfer, which otherwise could be diverted to trading.
Though I can write basic AFLs, yet my skills in this regard are limited.
At present I wish to learn some programming language, with the sole objective of writing better AFLs. Which language do you recommend, which will solve my purpose, with least effort. At present my programming skills can safely be taken as zero :eek:.
Regards.
 
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beginner_av

Well-Known Member
#50
Don't mind Sir but do you really think that any software can make money for a Trader ? It can only help in analyzing in a better way and most important quick enough. This is all I expect from a Trading software .

Trading software can make money for Software vendors only , not for trader but they can help a lot in proper analysis.

Regarding Programming , Yes I am a java certified Programmer and MBA Systems , its not an issue of whether I can or want to program or not , Why should we consume time in say abc software if that programming is already ready made available in xyz software , My question was regarding this issue . Which is well equipped software among listed 3 , and if some body thinks amibroker is best software to program and extend its use , than Boroland C++ compiler is best software .

Any way your this forum is very very useful and no doubt on this issue but as u said in starting that u are little biased on amibroker that is the only doubt because most of readers of this post may not be able to program especially non-technical background

And sorry if any thing hurted you

Regards
Who's hurt? Not me sir. your question of getting one of the 3 software sparked the reply. Do you know how you want to trade? See my first post. If you follow that, you'll arrive at the solution yourself. All the 3 software that you have listed serves very different audience and purposes.

how am i supposed to know if you know programming or not? You had mentioned price in your post, not programming knowledge as a prerequisite. If you DONT, you wont be able to do half the advanced stuff in amibroker. Even if you DO you wont be able to program half the advanced stuff in Metastock. And if you do not want to use neural nets, why would you bother about Neuroshell Trader?

Am I biased towards Amibroker? No, but for the price it offers and the support forum/user KB it offers it is a huge advantage. As for C++, if you asked any true quant, they'd vouch for that.